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#5785 [2004-10-19 10:58:31]

middleman

by rami_efal

Hi group!

I was wondering: I have never read of any middle-man between the Daimyo
and the Shugon in Edo era. Were the individual estates directly under Edo's
jurisdiction, or were each several estates clustered under, shall we say, a
province or a regional lord. (example: every borough of New York City has a
Mayor of Borough, by NYC still has ONE mayor [New York being Japan).

I guess the lack of mentioning of this structure hints at its non-existance, but I
was still wondering.

thanks,

Rami.

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#5788 [2004-10-20 05:27:03]

Re: [samuraihistory] middleman

by thomas_tessera

Hi Rami -

I think you might be in a 'can't see the wood for the trees' scenario, as the Edo era
shogunate was a highly stratified, hierarchical bureaucracy.

The first point is 'daimyo' means big name, but it is not a social rank as such, but
rather signifies that you're on the ladder. The Shogun himself is a daimyo, and he sits
at the apex of power.

The layers beneath can be very complex. Tokugawa Ieyasu, for example, when he
set up his shogunate, put those he wanted to keep on his side in positions of great
wealth, whilst those he could tust, his allies from the beginning, had relatively frugal
rewards, but were placed in positions of great strategic importance should trouble
flare up. I would also suggest they received rewards 'in kind' that made any sacrifice
worthwhile.

As for middlemen - the Tokugawa house had daimyate houses who were allies from
the very first - Ishikawa, Sakai, Sakakibara and notably the Honda. The latter family,
until they fell from grace, possessed considerable authority as middlemen between
Ieyasu and the rest, and if you fell out of favour with a middleman you might count
your days as numbered.

Put another way - the shogun is the daimyo at the top, the daimyo at the bottom
probably doesn't even get a mention in the history books, and EVERY other daimyo is
somewhere 'in the middle' between these two and working hard to preserve if not
advance his position along an often very greasy pole, whilst his every neighbour
seeks and hopes for his dislodgement.

Thomas.

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#5796 [2004-10-20 12:40:55]

Parting words

by crazoftheages

To the Buke,
This will be my last letter for some time. As most
should be aware, Takeda Katsuchiyo will be taking my
place as the Daimyo of Tokaido fief and head of the
household/clan of Hara while I am gone. I have
enjoyed being a part of this society a great deal
these past few weeks, and I hope to see it thriving
upon my return.

I should request that my name be taken off the
emailing list while I am gone, simply because by the
time I return, there will have been too many for me to
read, and probably overflowing my mailbox quota on
this Yahoo email account of mine. If there's anything
of significant importance that actually has relation
to me even after a long period of time, I'd welcome
it, but general discussion emails should probably be
cut off from me.

As I leave to go on musha shugyo, I can think of only
these parting words to give you all, nagorioshiku
soro.

Hara Katsusada



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