'Katsuyori' Misprint?

In a japanese history book I am reading it seems to refer to Takeda
Katsuyori •"c勝頼 as •"cM—Š which I
guess would be something
like "Nobuyori" - is this a misprint, or was this his name at one
point?

Wasn't "Nobu" the hereditary name in the Takeda
family? Maybe it's just very "traditional"...or maybe
he also had that name, but used the "Katsu" from the
Suwa tradition more often?

Nate

--- Kitsuno <samurai-listowner@...>
wrote:

> In a japanese history book I am reading it seems to
> refer to Takeda
> Katsuyori ��"c���� as ��"c�M�� which I
> guess would be something
> like "Nobuyori" - is this a misprint, or was this
> his name at one
> point?
>
>

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Oyakata holds session:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:59:31 -0000, Kitsunoさん wrote:
>In a japanese history book I am reading it seems to refer to Takeda
>Katsuyori 武"c勝頼 as 武"c信頼 which I
>guess would be something
>like "Nobuyori" - is this a misprint, or was this his name at one
>point?
>
It does not appear that 信頼 was one of the names used by Katsuyori.
There was a Takeda Nobuyori, son of Nobutake 信武 - but Nobutake died
in 1359 so this Nobuyori could not the same as Katsuyori.

Other than just a regular old typo, another possibility is that it
might not be a name but just the word 信頼 - that is, trust, believe,
depend on, etc.

--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...

The passage is talking about Katsuyori, I'll put some of it here,
hoping that Yahoo doesnt mangle it. It is a passage referring to
Shingen's advice to Katsuyori about asking Kenshin for help after
Shingen is gone:

。。。と、子の武田信頼に言い残した。しかし、子の信頼は上杉謙信と戦い抜いて
しまった。

Definately talkinga about Katsuyori, and definately not Shinrai,
unless I am way off base here...

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Oyakata wrote:
> Oyakata holds session:
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:59:31 -0000, Kitsunoさん wrote:
> >In a japanese history book I am reading it seems to refer to
Takeda
> >Katsuyori 武"c勝頼 as 武"c信頼 which I
> >guess would be something
> >like "Nobuyori" - is this a misprint, or was this his name at one
> >point?
> >
> It does not appear that 信頼 was one of the names used by
Katsuyori.
> There was a Takeda Nobuyori, son of Nobutake 信武 - but Nobutake
died
> in 1359 so this Nobuyori could not the same as Katsuyori.
>
> Other than just a regular old typo, another possibility is that it
> might not be a name but just the word 信頼 - that is, trust,
believe,
> depend on, etc.
>
> --
> Jay Kelly
> oyakata@O...

Oyakata holds session:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:08:03 -0000, Kitsunoさん wrote:
>The passage is talking about Katsuyori, I'll put some of it here,
>hoping that Yahoo doesnt mangle it. It is a passage referring to
>Shingen's advice to Katsuyori about asking Kenshin for help after
>Shingen is gone:
>
>。。。と、子の武田信頼に言い残した。しかし、子の信頼は上杉謙信と戦い抜いて
>しまった。
>
>Definately talkinga about Katsuyori, and definately not Shinrai,
>unless I am way off base here...

Hmm. Definitely looks like a name. One other possibility is that this
is not referring to Katsuyori, but rather it's referring to Mochizuki
Nobuyori 望月信頼. Nobuyori was the eldest son of Takeda Nobushige 武
田信繁, who is the younger brother of Takeda Harunobu (Shingen).

What is the timeframe of this conversation? The 'tatakainuita' may
be referring to the battle of Kawanaka-Jima　川中島の戦い. in 1561?

There doesn't appear to be a lot of information out there about this
Nobuyori, who apparently died at 18 (1547-1564).

Does this provide any help?

--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Oyakata wrote:

>
> Hmm. Definitely looks like a name. One other possibility is that

this

> is not referring to Katsuyori, but rather it's referring to

Mochizuki

> Nobuyori ﾋｾｷ�ｿｮﾍ�. Nobuyori was the eldest son of Takeda Nobushige

Éð

> ﾅﾄｿｮﾈﾋ, who is the younger brother of Takeda Harunobu (Shingen).
>
> What is the timeframe of this conversation? The 'tatakainuita' may
> be referring to the battle of Kawanaka-Jima｡｡ﾀ�ﾃ貲遉ﾎﾀ�､､. in 1561?
>
> There doesn't appear to be a lot of information out there about

this

> Nobuyori, who apparently died at 18 (1547-1564).
>
> Does this provide any help?

This took place when Shingen was near death, and giving his advice to
Katsuyori about trusting in Kenshin's chivalrous nature. He told
katsuyori that katsuyori can trust kenshin, because he is one of the
most honorable men in the realm, if Katsuyori asked for his help,
kenshin would give it. Obviously, Katsuyori decided not to follow
his father's advice.