figurines carried by samurai

I once read a historical account of a samurai that mentioned of a
certain type of figurine carried by the samurai of Japan.
Unfortunately , I am unable to remember the name of those figurines.
If I remember correctly, they were small and white with very little
detail carved into them. Possibly made of stone. I believe that the
figurines represented either ancestorial or spiritual significance.
If anyone knows of these figurines, could you please let me know the
name of them. Thank you.

I believe the 'figurines’ you are referring to are called 'Netsuke’ and they were usually made of ivory.

>"I believe that the figurines represented either ancestral or spiritual significance."

This, as far as I'm aware is a bit of a myth. I'm not saying some samurai didn’t have spiritual significant 'Netsuke' commissioned, however, I think trend and fashion of the times were the biggest influence on 'Netsuke' designs. I've seen 'Netsuke' carved into skulls, saki bottles and even couples in compromising positions!

Although I'm no expert, so hopefully you'll get some more helpful responses.

Miles

----- Original Message -----
From: "sodes77" <sodes77@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 00:57:40 -0000
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [samuraihistory] figurines carried by samurai

> I once read a historical account of a samurai that mentioned of a
> certain type of figurine carried by the samurai of Japan.
> Unfortunately , I am unable to remember the name of those figurines.
> If I remember correctly, they were small and white with very little
> detail carved into them. Possibly made of stone. I believe that the
> figurines represented either ancestorial or spiritual significance.
> If anyone knows of these figurines, could you please let me know the
> name of them. Thank you.
>
>

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sodes77 wrote:

> I once read a historical account of a samurai that mentioned of a
> certain type of figurine carried by the samurai of Japan.
> Unfortunately , I am unable to remember the name of those figurines.
> If I remember correctly, they were small and white with very little
> detail carved into them. Possibly made of stone. I believe that the
> figurines represented either ancestorial or spiritual significance.
> If anyone knows of these figurines, could you please let me know the
> name of them. Thank you.

This doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard of. I think someone must have
been pulling your leg.


Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
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--- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:

> sodes77 wrote:
>
> > I once read a historical account of a samurai that
> mentioned of a
> > certain type of figurine carried by the samurai of
> Japan.
> > Unfortunately , I am unable to remember the name
> of those figurines.
> > If I remember correctly, they were small and white
> with very little
> > detail carved into them. Possibly made of stone.
> I believe that the
> > figurines represented either ancestorial or
> spiritual significance.
> > If anyone knows of these figurines, could you
> please let me know the
> > name of them. Thank you.
>
> This doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard of.
> I think someone must have
> been pulling your leg.
>
>
> Tony

He's got to be talking about netsuke. Rather than
having any practical use, or them being "fashionable",
some "expert" he read probably attributed some kind of
spiritual significance, since isn't everything the
samurai ever did straight out of Zen and the Hagakure?


Sodes77--

netsuke are toggles, fasteners, etc, fashionable in
the Edo period. They were purely decorative. Possibly
someone attributed some kind of sentimental value, if
someone's father, mother, etc. had owned it before,
but Japanese didn't go around trusting their netsuke
to save their lives or whatever. They weren't
talismans.




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Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> He's got to be talking about netsuke. Rather than
> having any practical use, or them being "fashionable",
> some "expert" he read probably attributed some kind of
> spiritual significance, since isn't everything the
> samurai ever did straight out of Zen and the Hagakure?

Y'know, it never occurred to me that it would be netsuke -- that is so far from
the function, purpose, or design of netsuke that I wouldn't have even thought of
it. But you're probably right. Sigh.


Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

There's a line in Steven's book 'The Sword of No-Sword, Life of
the Master Warrior Tesshu' about a Kwannon figurine/statuette
that Tesshu carried as a gift from his mother (necessarily small,
I would have thought).

Not sure if this is the kind of thing you mean? I can dig the book
out if you want, but I doubt it'll have the Japanese name.

Thomas

> I once read a historical account of a samurai that mentioned of a
> certain type of figurine carried by the samurai of Japan.

The only reference I know for this is the Taiga drama Toshie and Matsu.
Toshie had some little statue from his mother? that he wore on his
helmet. Not the greatest of historical references!

Jim