Hattori Hanzo

Hi everyone,
I'm also trying to find out more about Hattori Hanzo (1541-1596).
I know that he was a Tokugawa retainer and was also a famous leader of
ninja. But were they just Iga ninja or a mixture of Iga and Koga ninja?
Also what was his duties as a retainer? Did he decide battle strategies or
did they know that he was a leader of ninja and used him because of that?
and how did he die, I have come across many different stories but I'm trying
to find the truth if possible.

The Sanada family were also part of a ninja group around this period of time
with a mixture of ninja's from Iga, Koga and even other schools.
I was told that they were known as, "The 10 ninja brave" but does anyone
know of any tasks they completed and any of their names and did Takeda
Shingen know of them and their use.

Thankyou for any information,

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

Matthew Dean <uchi_deshi@...> wrote:
Here is a quote from stephen Turnbulls book "Ninja"pg80:

"The Iga detachment, which was 200 strong, was under the command of the man who appears in popular works as the most famous ninja of all: Hattori Hanzo Masashige, who had acted as a guide through Iga. Hanzo, as he is commonly known, had been born in 1541 as the son of Hattori Yasunaga, a hereditary retainer of the tokugawa (or Matsudaira as they were then named). He fought his first battle at the age of 16 years in the form of a night attack on the castle of Udo in 1557, and went on to serve with distinction at the battles of Anegawa (1570) and Mikata ga hara (1572). His nickname was Devil Hanzo, to distinguish him from another prominent Mikawa Samurai, Watanabe Hanzo. As noted by Yamaguchi from Mikawa Monagatori: "Lord Tokugawa's best samurai were hattori Hanzo, (Devil Hanzo); Watanabe Hanzo, (Spear hanzo) and Atsumi Gengo (Headslicer Gengo).

Hattori Hanzo died in 1596 aged 55, and was succeeded by his son Hattori Iwami-no-kami Masanari."

The text goes on to talk about Tokugawa Ieyasu also emplying Koga men but does not discuss whether they were under the command of Hattori Hanzo. Also of interest is the fact that Hanzo's men became the guards of Edo castle and the Hanzo Gate still bears his name.

Hope this is helpful,

Musashi



Hi everyone,
I'm also trying to find out more about Hattori Hanzo (1541-1596).
I know that he was a Tokugawa retainer and was also a famous leader of
ninja. But were they just Iga ninja or a mixture of Iga and Koga ninja?
Also what was his duties as a retainer? Did he decide battle strategies or
did they know that he was a leader of ninja and used him because of that?
and how did he die, I have come across many different stories but I'm trying
to find the truth if possible.

The Sanada family were also part of a ninja group around this period of time
with a mixture of ninja's from Iga, Koga and even other schools.
I was told that they were known as, "The 10 ninja brave" but does anyone
know of any tasks they completed and any of their names and did Takeda
Shingen know of them and their use.

Thankyou for any information,

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

The sanada connection seems to have been portrayed a lot by the Bogus
Ninja instructor Harunaka Hoshino from San Fransisco. He claims to be
a Koga Ninja even though he is of Chinese decent.

i have this on Hanzo

HATTORI RYU

The Hattori Ryu, Momochi Ryu, and Fujibayashi Ryu, were all descended
from Otomo no Saijin, who himself was a leading member of one of
Japans highest ranked families. As the Hattori, and Momochi families
were all commoners they used the same Mon (coat of arms).

Iga Heinaizaemon no jo Ienaga one time, the head of the Hattori
family, gave permission for his sons to start their own lineage.
These three were called Hattori Heitaro Koreyuki, Hattori Heijiro
Yasuyori, and Hattori Heijiro Yasunori. The eldest son Koreyuki,
called his family 'Kamihattori', the middle son Yasuyori named
his 'Nakahattori', and the youngest Yasunori, called his
family 'Shimohattori'. The descendants of the Hattori family
originated many centuries early from China, and were at that time the
warlords of many provinces. For this reason they were known by many
names, amongst which they were known as "Kan Kuni no Kami" (Hattori
lords of Kan).

Heitaro Koreyuki was the oldest son of Iga no jo Ienaga, and as such
on his fathers death became the head of the Kamihattori. The
Kamihattori mon (crest) was known as Yahazu Nihon, or, "The two arrow
heads".

Heijiro Yasuyori, of the Nakahattori, had ties with the Chinese Go
province, their Mon was called Ichitomoe, or, "an arc".

Heijiro Yasunori, of the Shimohattori, was also called "Ae Kuni no
Hattori", (The Hattori of Ae). The Shimohattori Mon was called
Yaguruma, "The eight arrowheads in a circle".

Hanzo Hattori came from the Kamihattori branch of the Hattori family.
It is not fully known if he came from the Heitaro or the Chigachi
line (another branch of the Kamihattori family).

As well as the Hattori family, the Momochi, and Fujibayashi were also
very prominent within the Ninja schools of Iga.

In 1567, Oda Nobunaga ordered his Samurai to attack the Iga province.
The three Hattori families Kami, Naka, and Shimo were almost
destroyed. Only 80 members of these three powerful families survived.

As Iga was no longer safe for their survival, the three branches of
the Hattori family dispersed to different area's of Japan. The
Kamihattori fled to Nagaoka in Echigo. The Nakahattori split into two
groups. One group went to went to Mikawa, to the protection of, and
work in the service of the Tokugawa family, the other half of the
group went to the Oichi family in Takatori, in Yamato. The
Shimohattori escaped to the safety of the mountains of Takano in
Kishu.

Hattori Masanari, and his son Hattori Hanzo (both from the
Kamihattori), swore allegiance to Tokugawa Ieyasu. Hanzo while
working for the Tokugawa held the rank of 'Shinobi Metsuke', and he
had served Ieyasu's grandfather Matsudaira Kiyoyasu. Hanzo later,
with a friend, Shiro Tarao who was a Koga Ninja, helped Tokugawa
Ieyasu flee across Japan. They helped get Ieyasu to Okazakijo safely,
utilising the five ways of fleeing, and by setting up special
defensive formations along the road, and by using Ninja methods of
running. This all helped the Tokugawa eventually succeed as Shoguns.
The Hattori were not "Watari Ninja" (Ninja who moved around from one
Daimyo to another), they were loyal to the Tokugawa, and remained in
their service for many generations.

Masanari Hanzo, head of the Hattori family, received his training in
the martial arts, and Ninjutsu, from his father Hattori Hanzo
Yasunaga, when he was a child. He virtually grew up in the practice,
and tradition of the martial arts.

When Tokugawa Ieyasu raided Uzichijo of Mikawa at night, Hanzo was
young man of 16 years. For the skills that he used during the battle,
he earned himself a commendation. He was given the name "Hanzo the
Ghost". Even Ieyasu recognised his skill. Today in the province of
Kawachi the name Hanzo is still widely in use. In his later years
Hanzo was also known as "Hanzo the great lancer" (Yari no Hanzo).

Hanzo was placed in charge of the Hassenishi Samurai, and then came
to be known as "Hattori Hanzo Iwami no Kami".

At one time Hanzo had over 200 Ninja working with him, each held the
rank of Doshin. He developed problems with these Ninja and he found
it difficult to control them, and he relieved them of their services.
He then employed many more Ninja from Iga. Sometime later in his
life, he became a Monk.

Hanzo Hattori (above) was so famous that in the province of Mikawa
songs were written about him. One contained these lines:

"Lord Tokugawa has the finest warriors
Hanzo Hattori is Demon
Hanzo is Hanzo the Yari"

Some say that Hanzo Hattori met his death on 4th December 1596, while
trying to bring the Ninja of the Fuma Ryu to justice. The date must
be wrong as Hanzo helped Ieyasu in the early 1600"s. The story of his
death says that the Fuma Kainin (he had two protruding teeth), and
his Fuma Ryu originally came from Kanagawa. In small boats Hanzo and
his men chased the Fuma out to sea. This was a mistake on the behalf
of Hanzo as the Fuma were specialists in the use of water, and
several swam under water, and began dismantling the rudders of the
boats belonging to Hanzo. As their boats were now disabled Hanzo's
men decided to jump overboard, and swim to the near by shore. When
they entered the water, they discovered that the water was covered
with oil. To which the Fuma Ryu Ninja set fire, killing all of the
Tokugawa Samurai and Ninja including Hattori Hanzo.



Hope this helps

"...Bogus Ninja instructor Harunaka Hoshino from San Fransisco. He
claims to be a Koga Ninja even though he is of Chinese decent."

the name 'harunaka hoshino' sounds pretty 'Japanezy' to me... It's
not a chinese name, unless this is an alias or he changed his name, or is
half chinese with a japanese father. heck, i don't even know who this guy
is, anyway.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: umaryu [SMTP:umaryu@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 9:56 AM
> To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Hattori Hanzo
>
> Hi
>
> The sanada connection seems to have been portrayed a lot by the Bogus
> Ninja instructor Harunaka Hoshino from San Fransisco. He claims to be
> a Koga Ninja even though he is of Chinese decent.
>
> i have this on Hanzo
>
> HATTORI RYU
>
> The Hattori Ryu, Momochi Ryu, and Fujibayashi Ryu, were all descended
> from Otomo no Saijin, who himself was a leading member of one of
> Japans highest ranked families. As the Hattori, and Momochi families
> were all commoners they used the same Mon (coat of arms).
>
> Iga Heinaizaemon no jo Ienaga one time, the head of the Hattori
> family, gave permission for his sons to start their own lineage.
> These three were called Hattori Heitaro Koreyuki, Hattori Heijiro
> Yasuyori, and Hattori Heijiro Yasunori. The eldest son Koreyuki,
> called his family 'Kamihattori', the middle son Yasuyori named
> his 'Nakahattori', and the youngest Yasunori, called his
> family 'Shimohattori'. The descendants of the Hattori family
> originated many centuries early from China, and were at that time the
> warlords of many provinces. For this reason they were known by many
> names, amongst which they were known as "Kan Kuni no Kami" (Hattori
> lords of Kan).
>
> Heitaro Koreyuki was the oldest son of Iga no jo Ienaga, and as such
> on his fathers death became the head of the Kamihattori. The
> Kamihattori mon (crest) was known as Yahazu Nihon, or, "The two arrow
> heads".
>
> Heijiro Yasuyori, of the Nakahattori, had ties with the Chinese Go
> province, their Mon was called Ichitomoe, or, "an arc".
>
> Heijiro Yasunori, of the Shimohattori, was also called "Ae Kuni no
> Hattori", (The Hattori of Ae). The Shimohattori Mon was called
> Yaguruma, "The eight arrowheads in a circle".
>
> Hanzo Hattori came from the Kamihattori branch of the Hattori family.
> It is not fully known if he came from the Heitaro or the Chigachi
> line (another branch of the Kamihattori family).
>
> As well as the Hattori family, the Momochi, and Fujibayashi were also
> very prominent within the Ninja schools of Iga.
>
> In 1567, Oda Nobunaga ordered his Samurai to attack the Iga province.
> The three Hattori families Kami, Naka, and Shimo were almost
> destroyed. Only 80 members of these three powerful families survived.
>
> As Iga was no longer safe for their survival, the three branches of
> the Hattori family dispersed to different area's of Japan. The
> Kamihattori fled to Nagaoka in Echigo. The Nakahattori split into two
> groups. One group went to went to Mikawa, to the protection of, and
> work in the service of the Tokugawa family, the other half of the
> group went to the Oichi family in Takatori, in Yamato. The
> Shimohattori escaped to the safety of the mountains of Takano in
> Kishu.
>
> Hattori Masanari, and his son Hattori Hanzo (both from the
> Kamihattori), swore allegiance to Tokugawa Ieyasu. Hanzo while
> working for the Tokugawa held the rank of 'Shinobi Metsuke', and he
> had served Ieyasu's grandfather Matsudaira Kiyoyasu. Hanzo later,
> with a friend, Shiro Tarao who was a Koga Ninja, helped Tokugawa
> Ieyasu flee across Japan. They helped get Ieyasu to Okazakijo safely,
> utilising the five ways of fleeing, and by setting up special
> defensive formations along the road, and by using Ninja methods of
> running. This all helped the Tokugawa eventually succeed as Shoguns.
> The Hattori were not "Watari Ninja" (Ninja who moved around from one
> Daimyo to another), they were loyal to the Tokugawa, and remained in
> their service for many generations.
>
> Masanari Hanzo, head of the Hattori family, received his training in
> the martial arts, and Ninjutsu, from his father Hattori Hanzo
> Yasunaga, when he was a child. He virtually grew up in the practice,
> and tradition of the martial arts.
>
> When Tokugawa Ieyasu raided Uzichijo of Mikawa at night, Hanzo was
> young man of 16 years. For the skills that he used during the battle,
> he earned himself a commendation. He was given the name "Hanzo the
> Ghost". Even Ieyasu recognised his skill. Today in the province of
> Kawachi the name Hanzo is still widely in use. In his later years
> Hanzo was also known as "Hanzo the great lancer" (Yari no Hanzo).
>
> Hanzo was placed in charge of the Hassenishi Samurai, and then came
> to be known as "Hattori Hanzo Iwami no Kami".
>
> At one time Hanzo had over 200 Ninja working with him, each held the
> rank of Doshin. He developed problems with these Ninja and he found
> it difficult to control them, and he relieved them of their services.
> He then employed many more Ninja from Iga. Sometime later in his
> life, he became a Monk.
>
> Hanzo Hattori (above) was so famous that in the province of Mikawa
> songs were written about him. One contained these lines:
>
> "Lord Tokugawa has the finest warriors
> Hanzo Hattori is Demon
> Hanzo is Hanzo the Yari"
>
> Some say that Hanzo Hattori met his death on 4th December 1596, while
> trying to bring the Ninja of the Fuma Ryu to justice. The date must
> be wrong as Hanzo helped Ieyasu in the early 1600"s. The story of his
> death says that the Fuma Kainin (he had two protruding teeth), and
> his Fuma Ryu originally came from Kanagawa. In small boats Hanzo and
> his men chased the Fuma out to sea. This was a mistake on the behalf
> of Hanzo as the Fuma were specialists in the use of water, and
> several swam under water, and began dismantling the rudders of the
> boats belonging to Hanzo. As their boats were now disabled Hanzo's
> men decided to jump overboard, and swim to the near by shore. When
> they entered the water, they discovered that the water was covered
> with oil. To which the Fuma Ryu Ninja set fire, killing all of the
> Tokugawa Samurai and Ninja including Hattori Hanzo.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps
>
>
>
>
>
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> ---
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

I've heard alot about this film, but its very hard to
find.

Is it worth the trouble of finding a copy? is it any
good?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
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Hi

Hoshino claims to be a Koga Ninja grandmaster. He is
based in San Fransisco USA, anyone in the uSA who is
serious about Japanese sword should know his name by
now if not they need to to. He claims to polish baldes
and appraisee them. Many blades he has polished have
been destroyed or damaged beyond repair, also a lot of
blades have never been returned.

there has been discussion about him on several sword
sites and journals. I think also he may have been
investigated by USA police departments.

A warning to everyone dont send this many anything

paul




--- westce@... wrote:

---

����� "...Bogus Ninja
instructor Harunaka Hoshino from San Fransisco. He

claims to be a Koga Ninja even though he is of Chinese
decent."



����� the name 'harunaka
hoshino' sounds pretty 'Japanezy' to me... 
It's

not a chinese name, unless this is an alias or he
changed his name, or is

half chinese with a japanese father.  heck, i
don't even know who this guy

is, anyway.

> -----Original Message-----

> From:����� umaryu

[SMTP:umaryu@...]

> Sent:����� Monday,

January 28, 2002 9:56 AM

> To:�����

samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com

> Subject:�����

[samuraihistory] Re: Hattori Hanzo

>

> Hi

>

> The sanada connection seems to have been

portrayed a lot by the Bogus

> Ninja instructor Harunaka Hoshino from San

Fransisco. He claims to be

> a Koga Ninja even though he is of Chinese

decent.

>

> i have this on Hanzo

>

> HATTORI RYU

>

> The Hattori Ryu, Momochi Ryu, and Fujibayashi

Ryu, were all descended

> from Otomo no Saijin, who himself was a leading

member of one of

> Japans highest ranked families. As the Hattori,

and Momochi families

> were all commoners they used the same Mon (coat

of arms).

>

> Iga Heinaizaemon no jo Ienaga one time, the head

of the Hattori

> family, gave permission for his sons to start

their own lineage.

> These three were called Hattori Heitaro Koreyuki,

Hattori Heijiro

> Yasuyori, and Hattori Heijiro Yasunori. The

eldest son Koreyuki,

> called his family 'Kamihattori', the middle son

Yasuyori named

> his 'Nakahattori', and the youngest Yasunori,

called his

> family 'Shimohattori'. The descendants of the

Hattori family

> originated many centuries early from China, and

were at that time the

> warlords of many provinces. For this reason they

were known by many

> names, amongst which they were known as "Kan

Kuni no Kami" (Hattori

> lords of Kan).

>

> Heitaro Koreyuki was the oldest son of Iga no jo

Ienaga, and as such

> on his fathers death became the head of the

Kamihattori. The

> Kamihattori mon (crest) was known as Yahazu

Nihon, or, "The two arrow

> heads".

>

> Heijiro Yasuyori, of the Nakahattori, had ties

with the Chinese Go

> province, their Mon was called Ichitomoe, or,

"an arc".

>

> Heijiro Yasunori, of the Shimohattori, was also

called "Ae Kuni no

> Hattori", (The Hattori of Ae). The

Shimohattori Mon was called

> Yaguruma, "The eight arrowheads in a

circle".

>

> Hanzo Hattori came from the Kamihattori branch of

the Hattori family.

> It is not fully known if he came from the Heitaro

or the Chigachi

> line (another branch of the Kamihattori

family).

>

> As well as the Hattori family, the Momochi, and

Fujibayashi were also

> very prominent within the Ninja schools of

Iga.

>

> In 1567, Oda Nobunaga ordered his Samurai to

attack the Iga province.

> The three Hattori families Kami, Naka, and Shimo

were almost

> destroyed. Only 80 members of these three

powerful families survived.

>

> As Iga was no longer safe for their survival, the

three branches of

> the Hattori family dispersed to different area's

of Japan. The

> Kamihattori fled to Nagaoka in Echigo. The

Nakahattori split into two

> groups. One group went to went to Mikawa, to the

protection of, and

> work in the service of the  Tokugawa family,

the other half of the

> group went to the Oichi family in Takatori, in

Yamato. The

> Shimohattori escaped to the safety of the

mountains of Takano in

> Kishu.

>

> Hattori Masanari, and his son  Hattori Hanzo

(both from the

> Kamihattori), swore allegiance to Tokugawa

Ieyasu. Hanzo while

> working for the Tokugawa held the rank of

'Shinobi Metsuke', and he

> had served Ieyasu's grandfather Matsudaira

Kiyoyasu. Hanzo later,

> with a friend, Shiro Tarao who was a Koga Ninja,

helped Tokugawa

> Ieyasu flee across Japan. They helped get Ieyasu

to Okazakijo safely,

> utilising the five ways of fleeing, and by

setting up special

> defensive formations along the road, and by using

Ninja methods of

> running. This all helped the Tokugawa eventually

succeed as Shoguns.

> The Hattori were not "Watari Ninja"

(Ninja who moved around from one

> Daimyo to another), they were loyal to the

Tokugawa, and remained in

> their service for many generations.

>

> Masanari Hanzo, head of the Hattori family,

received his training in

> the martial arts, and Ninjutsu, from his father

Hattori Hanzo

> Yasunaga, when he was a child. He virtually grew

up in the practice,

> and tradition of the martial arts.

>

> When Tokugawa Ieyasu raided Uzichijo of Mikawa at

night, Hanzo was

> young man of 16 years. For the skills that he

used during the battle,

> he earned himself a commendation. He was given

the name "Hanzo the

> Ghost". Even Ieyasu recognised his skill.

Today in the province of

> Kawachi the name Hanzo is still widely in use. In

his later years

> Hanzo was also known as "Hanzo the great

lancer" (Yari no Hanzo).

>

> Hanzo was placed in charge of the Hassenishi

Samurai, and then came

> to be known as "Hattori Hanzo Iwami no

Kami".

>

> At one time Hanzo had over 200 Ninja working with

him, each held the

> rank of Doshin. He developed problems with these

Ninja and he found

> it difficult to control them, and he relieved

them of their services.

> He then employed many more Ninja from Iga.

Sometime later in his

> life, he became a Monk.

>

> Hanzo Hattori (above) was so famous that in the

province of Mikawa

> songs were written about him. One contained these

lines:

>

> "Lord Tokugawa has the finest warriors

> Hanzo Hattori is Demon

> Hanzo is Hanzo the Yari"

>

> Some say that Hanzo Hattori met his death on 4th

December 1596, while

> trying to bring the Ninja of the Fuma Ryu to

justice. The date must

> be wrong as Hanzo helped Ieyasu in the early

1600"s. The story of his

> death says that the Fuma Kainin (he had two

protruding teeth), and

> his Fuma Ryu originally came from Kanagawa. In

small boats Hanzo and

> his men chased the Fuma out to sea. This was a

mistake on the behalf

> of Hanzo as the Fuma were specialists in the use

of water, and

> several swam under water, and began dismantling

the rudders of the

> boats belonging to Hanzo. As their boats were now

disabled Hanzo's

> men decided to jump overboard, and swim to the

near by shore. When

> they entered the water, they discovered that the

water was covered

> with oil. To which the Fuma Ryu Ninja set fire,

killing all of the

> Tokugawa Samurai and Ninja including Hattori

Hanzo.

>

>

>

> Hope this helps

>

>

>

>

>

> Samurai Archives:

href="http://www.samurai-archives.com">http://www.samurai-archives.com

> ---

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email

to:

> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

> 

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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> Is it worth the trouble of finding a copy? is it any
> good?

Hmm.. let's see... YYEESS!! Go to this link, bust out your credit
card, and buy it now:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0780020685/qid=1012369495/sr=1-
1/ref=sr_1_74_1/104-4212684-9853558

The criterion version is excellent, the video is clean, the sound has
been improved, and the optional running comentary is the best I've
heard on a DVD with the single exception of Das Boot.
This is opposed to the DVD of RAN, which was a horrible waste of 35$ -
no features, bad video, and you can't even opt to turn off the
annoying subtitles....

Just about the best film on Samurai that you could buy.
Others to watch for also by Akira Kurosawa are; Yojimbo, Throne of Blood,
Sanjuro, the Hidden fortress, Kagemusha, and Ran..All excellent films and it
is truly quite incredible that you have'nt heard of the Seven Samurai! Maybe
the remake of it by Hollywood will ring bells..."Magnificent Seven" (? Seven
Samurai is far, far, far better as a film but both are excellent to watch.)
Yojimbo was also remade as "A fistful of Dollars" by Eastwood/Leone and more
recently as "Last Man Standing" with B. Willis...The original is of course
far better though!
Abayo.

In a word : YES !
The first times, its very different from traditionnal movie style (many
find it boring), but it all comes together in the end...
YES go for it...

JP

lee thompson wrote:

> I've heard alot about this film, but its very hard to
> find.
>
> Is it worth the trouble of finding a copy? is it any
> good?
>
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the seven samurais you can to get in DVD format is excellent movie.

>From: chapleau@...
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] The seven samurai
>Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:00:27 +0000
>
>
> In a word : YES !
> The first times, its very different from traditionnal movie style
>(many
>find it boring), but it all comes together in the end...
> YES go for it...
>
>JP
>
>lee thompson wrote:
>
> > I've heard alot about this film, but its very hard to
> > find.
> >
> > Is it worth the trouble of finding a copy? is it any
> > good?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> > ---
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

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Hi !!

I got a question to make you all...

One day i was on a computer software store, and i
found agame namend "Shogun total war", i bougth it,
and i have been playing it for some time.

I am sure you heard about this, and maybe some of you
have played it, my question is: How much is the game
close to reality?, a mean, all simulations are just
that, but in this one i really wish to know how close
is.

I, as a researcher of the past often use all the
tools at my reach to my work, even if this include
computer software.

Thank you all.

Edwin.

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Not totaly but its more realistic then other games

--- Edwin Angulo <mayalan@...> wrote:

>
> Hi !!
>
> I got a question to make you all...
>
> One day i was on a computer software store, and i
> found agame namend "Shogun total war", i bougth it,
> and i have been playing it for some time.
>
> I am sure you heard about this, and maybe some of
> you
> have played it, my question is: How much is the game
> close to reality?, a mean, all simulations are just
> that, but in this one i really wish to know how
> close
> is.
>
> I, as a researcher of the past often use all the
> tools at my reach to my work, even if this include
> computer software.
>
> Thank you all.
>
> Edwin.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> ---
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Total war is a great game. The mongol invasion is the
sequel. Its all historically accurate and the strategy
simulation is great.

Only a few things let it down. You can't controll
individual man in the fist one, but the sequel has
better individual A.I

The battles are huge, you can have thousands of
samurai on the screen, and that might just be your army

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well i find the game play to be excellent and it truly
rewards the use of tactics.
that being said ....realistic, well depends on how you
mean it. the unit types have been altered to fit
certain roles. i see this especially in the nodachi(
offense) and naginata troups(defense). the gunners of
both types are pitifully ineffective. the basic triad
concept of archer,spear, and calvary strengths and
weakness works fairly well, though with real ammo
restrictions the archers are to weaker and they
already start off a little on the weak side. also in
making agood army later in the game youll probably
find your army wont be anything near historical
proportions of troop types.
--and shouldnt the takeda capital be able to make
heavy cav??? come on!!!---
in all seriousness i think the flavor and style is
there: the sounds, battle formations, voices etc., as
well as a fairly substantial amount of substance; but
it is first and foremost a game, not a historical
study.

as a game the variabls used and the calculation of
each member of a units action are impressive as is the
ability to pass units through each other with a
resonable amount of disruption. the effectso f morale
fatigue and formationalong with unit type demands the
use of tactics to win. faults, well the computer will
cheat if you play a campaign.( hint it can borrow and
go to negative gold, you cannot) the fact that you
rapidly approach as large of an army as the computer
can handle means the rest stream in over time as
reinforcements.(this really hurts the mass # of
ashigaru strategy,ie it doesnt work) and routing units
that pass though opposing formed units get a charge
bonus( that one lone running ashigaru can cut a whole
right through a formed unit)
i hope this covers what you werelooking for
--kiyohara
--- Edwin Angulo <mayalan@...> wrote:

>
> Hi !!
>
> I got a question to make you all...
>
> One day i was on a computer software store, and i
> found agame namend "Shogun total war", i bougth it,
> and i have been playing it for some time.
>
> I am sure you heard about this, and maybe some of
> you
> have played it, my question is: How much is the game
> close to reality?, a mean, all simulations are just
> that, but in this one i really wish to know how
> close
> is.
>
> I, as a researcher of the past often use all the
> tools at my reach to my work, even if this include
> computer software.
>
> Thank you all.
>
> Edwin.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> ---
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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