Re: Digest Number 857

...Also, if the tip
had enough of an edge, it could be used as a shuriken since the original
shuriken were merely short knives, not throwing stars.


In fact, as I understand it, the true shuriken is a spike (or dart) for
throwing, pointed at one or both ends. The throwing star is technically a
shaken. (Would anyone care to translate the two terms literally? I'd be
very curious to understand the distinction between shaken and shuriken,
linguistically.) I've only seen one book discuss the matter - _Spike and
Chain_ (it's an overview of shaken, shuriken and manriki-gusari), so if
anyone has any information to the contrary I'd be interested in that as
well.
Gereg

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:34:07 -0700, Silk Road Schoolさん wrote in message <MEBBKDHGPNKGMLKPDAOPCELGCEAA.silk.road.school@...>

>In fact, as I understand it, the true shuriken is a spike (or dart) for
>throwing, pointed at one or both ends. The throwing star is technically a
>shaken. (Would anyone care to translate the two terms literally? I'd be

Shu-Ri-Ken means "Sword from the back of the hand" (手裏剣)
Sha-Ken means "sword that is shaped like a wheel" (車券).

Personally I've never heard them expressed as opposing terms. In my
experience, shaken are a type of shuriken. Some shuriken are shaped
like needles. These are called 'bou-shuriken' which basically means
'stick shuriken'. Some shuriken are shaped like stars. These are
shaken. But that is my limited understanding. I could very well be
misinformed.


--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...

HI

original shuriken started off as stones and in some
cases an item called Tsubute

the spike you refer to is callled Bo-shuriekn (stick
shuriken) this is as you say a spike - maybe nothing
more than a nail in some cases.

Shaken are spikes as you say and these may have been
devleoped in later years.

Shaken take very little training to aquire some skill.
however Bo-shuriken do take serious study if you wish
to study many different avenues of this field.

If you really wish to readmore about shuriken I
suggest that you start with this web page
http://www.aikidoaus.com.au/dojo/shuriken/

The book spike and chain by R Gruzanki is an
interesting book. you can read about the origin of the
book and its author and nawa sensei who features in
the book at this site run by his son
http://www.robertg.com/

from what i gather Masaki ryu does not really teach
shuriken

there are many ryu that still teach shuriken in japan
today. One excellent video is made by the Nippon
Budokan on the Negishi Ryu

paul



--- Silk Road School <silk.road.school@...>
wrote:

> ...Also, if the tip
> had enough of an edge, it could be used as a
> shuriken since the original
> shuriken were merely short knives, not throwing
> stars.
>
>
> In fact, as I understand it, the true shuriken is a
> spike (or dart) for
> throwing, pointed at one or both ends. The throwing
> star is technically a
> shaken. (Would anyone care to translate the two
> terms literally? I'd be
> very curious to understand the distinction between
> shaken and shuriken,
> linguistically.) I've only seen one book discuss
> the matter - _Spike and
> Chain_ (it's an overview of shaken, shuriken and
> manriki-gusari), so if
> anyone has any information to the contrary I'd be
> interested in that as
> well.
> Gereg
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion
> Toolbar.
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
>

http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/BcOolB/TM

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store:
> http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

--- Oyakata <oyakata@...> wrote:

>
> Shu-Ri-Ken means "Sword from the back of the hand"
> (��E���E
> Sha-Ken means "sword that is shaped like a wheel"
> (����E.

Don't know it it was a typo, Jay, but the "ken" that
comes up in "sha-ken" when I read your message above
is the word for ticket...can that be right?



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 03:13:02 -0700 (PDT), Nate Ledbetterさん wrote in message <20040703101302.957.qmail@...>

>--- Oyakata <oyakata@...> wrote:
>>
>> Shu-Ri-Ken means "Sword from the back of the hand"
>> (シ・「キ・
>> Sha-Ken means "sword that is shaped like a wheel"
>> (シヨキ・.
>
>Don't know it it was a typo, Jay, but the "ken" that
>comes up in "sha-ken" when I read your message above
>is the word for ticket...can that be right?

Hahaha. No you're right it's a typo - good catch. The two words
are homophones.

As you say, 車剣 is the right word - not 車券.

This is a kind of typo called 変換ミス. It's quite easy to do
(although it is sloppy and I shouldn't have done it) when typing
in Japanese.

--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...