On Jun 10, 2004, at 6:59 AM, Medhal Mikit Stór-ljon Oddhinsson wrote:
> Will do my best.
>
> ---
> Although it may be apparently a race issue, notes on his mein kamph
> proves
> wrong.
*** Sorry if we're OT...
Are you aware of the fact that the Mein Kampf was written in the early
twenties and the systematic killing of Jewish (=the final solution)
began 20 years later? A few things had changed in the meantime, just
check out two maps of Europe from 1924 and 1941, for example... Do you
think hitler was the same person with the same agenda?? And do you
think he had the same amount of power and the same number of neurons??
> Hitler mentioned in his mein kamph that no matter the race, an certain
> people can be "evil" or "good" deppending on their cultural
> background. He
> also said "the first step to destroy a nation, is to destroy its
> culture".
>
> He fought non christians
Like... he was Christian?
Perhaps vegetarian, but Christian I don't think so...
Ahem: "Thou shalt not kill" ???
> in general at Germany, Jews, homosexuals, people
> who was freethinkers and didn´t supported the Nazi Regime (they was
> sent to
> concentration camps despite if they was "pure race"-dogs with pedigree
> or
> not). So, more than racial, it was even more about an ideological
> absolutism.
>
> In this way, he was very alike Nobunaga, Oda.
Ok, but two very different kind of absolutisms, pointing different
goals, in different centuries, in different centuries, blah... blah...
blah... you can't say two individuals are the same just because they're
both absolutists.
>>> Hitler killed jews not due to racist motivations
>>> only, but also religious,
>>
>> Question 1: I do not understand what you meant by
>> 'religious'.
> Octavio: Means: NO CHRISTIAN! Although the precedent catholic
> concentration
> camps at Yugoslavia killed not only jews, non christians, homosexuals
> and
> people who though differently of the interests of the Rebel Catholic
> Ustashi, they also killed protestants, lutherans, catholic orthodox as
> well,
> Germany under Adolph Hitler, killed just no christians. Other
> denominations
> of christianity was more safer than it was in Yugoslavia. Religion is
> also a
> set of morals and ideas, not only simple an belief system. If he was an
> absolutist, he fough also, what he considered inconvenient religions
> for his
> purposes.
Once again, I really believe he killed most people for economic reasons
and because he was a madman. Nobunaga was no madman. He was a ruthless
warrior, who killed a lot of people, but with a clearly defined goal in
his mind, a goal that MANY in Japan today still consider the greater
good: unification of the country, before Japan was unified as a colony
under China or a Western power...
>>
>>> And... Although this is offtopic, Cesar, you may
>>> criticise my History View
>>> Points as much as ye want, but was not any
>>> non-christian religion who always
>>> was conspiring to change history logs, doing
>>> adulteration and falsification
>>> on the documents, such as what whas done with
>>> certain doccuments by Taccitus
>>> and others to "prove" that Jesus existed. As well,
>>> to accuse several others
>>> religions (including judaism) of "human sacrifice"
>>> and all the same rant as
>>> aways.
>>>
>>> The japanese remember very well their history.
>>> Thanks to Tokugawa again.
>>
>> Question 2: Do you mean that the Japanese remember
>> well that Nobunaga = Hitler? Is this how many Japanese
>> historians interpret the historical postion of
>> Nobunaga and teach young Japanese students in their
>> history classes?
> Octavio: I mean exactly what I mean. You added meaning to my stated
> phrases.
> Japanese people does not taunt, at least at the time I learn japanese
> history, things like "loosers was the evil" and "winners was the
> good", but
> just telling the facts. They also din´t put in their history books that
> Shinto do human sacrifices, and buddhists do the same as well.
Your sources for this, please?
> But if
> christianity would take over Japan as it happened with my country, and
> several scandinavian ones, Shinto and Buddhism would be despicted in
> history
> books as "absolute EVIL". That was my point.
So, your theory is: both Hitler and Nobunaga killed non-christisns, so
they're the same?
>>> And although I am not a communist...
>>> "the people who don´t know their true history
>>> deeply, are fated to repeat it
>>> in circles"
>>> Mao Tse Tung
>>
>> Question 3: How is this quotation of Mao related to
>> your argument?
> Octavio: Think better, and you will realize what I mean.
More than that I'd need some Asahi Dry, I believe...
>>
>>> "Don´t go around spreading
>>> that I am telling lies.
>>> Stand up and PROVE I am wrong.
>>> The History of the Church
>>> is full of conspirations of ambition and power"
>>> Goetche
>>
>> Question 4: How does this quotation PROVE that you did
>> not lie when you said that the Japanese parents quote
>> Nobunaga to scare their children?
>>
> Octavio: I saw it with my own eyes when at Japan 14 years ago, and also
> mentioned in some mangas as well at that time.
Sorry, but the stories and you've heard and the manga you've read do
not make very impressive historical sources. My wife is Japanese, and
she does not tell Nobunaga stories to our kid (actually she likes him a
lot-so eventually would be positive stories.) So, we're 1-1, at least.
> Can you prove the contrary? I
> don´t care if you do not believe me, or even if you believe as well. I
> am
> not a preacher. My life´s meaning will not end if you don´t believe me.
I do believe you're sincere, but we're talking history here, non
opinions based (it seems) upon fragmentary sources.
> Those who want know the truth, not only about what I stated, but about
> every
> subject, must just not simply believe in what me or other people
> affirmed,
> or skeptically disbelieve, but do their own research in all the
> sources they
> can access. Including public libraries and internet.
Well, I am a graduate student in Japanese history, and I teach World
History. The professor I study with is one of the best in the world in
traditional Japan history.
I believe by now I know a bit about how to manage sources.
> For an example... Who cares if you didn´t believe in what I stated
> about
> Buddhism history in Japan and their co-relaction with Samurai?
What, where, when?? The sacrifices...?? I am lost again...
> The sources,
> like Kalama Sutta, shingon-tendai references are available even in
> english
> nowaddays. And if one want study the tripitaka, one can become a monk,
> learn
> Pali and spend a life reading it.
Pali is an old Indian language, the vulgar version of Sanskrit. What
has this to do with what we were talking about???!?!?!??!??!?! Do I
need more Asahi Dry????
> In fact, is what even Buddha recomended to
> do in Kalama Sutra. Don´t believe me, go and read it. he he he
Wow. I'd wish you can stick to the point, and make things clearer.
Do you have a greater theory?
I am still not clear on Nobunaga & Hitler, let alone the sacrifices....
cepo