The big question!!

Hi to everyone,

Here it is the big question!!
So then just to get you all thinking,
Who was the greatest Samurai or Daimyo of all time?
and if that's not enough to get you thinking, then
Who would you most like to of been given the chance, and why?

This is just a few questions to get people thinking,
I was asked them and I really was puzzled and for a while I
thought I had the answer. But like everything, the more
you research the more harder it is to make your mind up....

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Hello,

Although this is a very opinion based question and not
historically relevant. I have always thought of
Kusonoki Masashige as a good example of the early
loyalty of the samurai before the Sengoku jidai. As
for Daimyo I feel either Toyotomi Hideyoshi or Date
masamune would both be good choices. Some have said,
had he been born earlier Date masamune would have
ruled Japan.

Just opinion.

Musashi
--- Matthew Dean <uchi_deshi@...> wrote:

>
> Hi to everyone,
>
> Here it is the big question!!
> So then just to get you all thinking,
> Who was the greatest Samurai or Daimyo of all time?
> and if that's not enough to get you thinking, then
> Who would you most like to of been given the chance,
> and why?
>
> This is just a few questions to get people thinking,
> I was asked them and I really was puzzled and for a
> while I
> thought I had the answer. But like everything, the
> more
> you research the more harder it is to make your mind
> up....
>
>

_________________________________________________________________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print
> your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

For daimyo - Uesugi Kenshin
Takeda Shingen's enemy - my choice because of his unswerving loyalty
to the family into which he was adopted, as opposed to Shingen, who
got rid of his father to sieze control of the domain.

For samurai - Yagyu Munenori
For the most famous historically verified individual feat of arms.

Tsukahara Bokuden for his exemplary demonstration of the
Way of the Warrior

Purely personal, you understand,

Tom

I too would go with Date Masamune,
Raised in the saddle he became a gifted politician and founded a
Daimyate that ruled until the restoration. Sparred with Hideyoshi and
Ieyasu, fought in Korea, witnessed the events up to and after Sekigahara,
witnessed the battles of Osaka castle, Sent the first mission to Rome and
dreamed of sailing there himself one day...
Could i be anyone not just a Sengoku Daimyo I would go for Thomas
Glover, the merchant of death, who sold arms to the Satsuma and Choshu
armies. Oh to be there as a close observer. Tobaku! Tobaku! Matta Tobaku!


Tom

Hello,
Good question!...
My 'best' Daimyo would undoubtedly be Takeda Shingen (Harunobu)..where can
you begin with the accomplishments of this man? Organisational
skills..Earning of respect in his lands ( And from other Daimyo and his
retainers)..Developing of machinery of government and development of
agriculture (dam construction and road building etc..) Damn! the list goes
on!
Who would I have been if I could? Sasaki Shiro Takatsuna of the Uji river
race fame.. What a Samurai! On the method he used to acquire his horse for
the race alone he would have my respect but that on top of being such a
warrior rates him highly on my list..Failing that (although it has already
been taken!) Yagyu Munenori without a doubt. And after that Miyamoto Musashi,
and after that...See what these questions do to me!
Abayo!
Ben.

There was no daimyo, like a Takeda Harunobu :)

And samurai was either Kusonoki Masashige because of his idealism and tactical wisdom or Nishina Daisuke of his legacy.

And naturally you can't forget Musashi.

-SWJL




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have to agree with all you've said about Takeda Shingen, however I'd also
throw out Oda Nobunaga. It may be passe, but the fact is, Nobunaga was not
only flexible in war and politics - far more than most of his
contemporaries, but he also knew what it took to unify the country, and went
about it fearlessly and ruthlessly. Before his attack on Mt. Hiei, where
[allegedly] 20,000 men, women and children were slaughtered, he stated, that
he (and I'm paraphrasing) basically threw any semblance of a normal life or
the pursuit of worldly pleasure away for the good of Japan (in order to
unify it, and bring peace to it), and since not only had the monks of Mt.
hiei stymied his attempts at subjugating the asakura, but done so even after
many warnings, he was forced to slaugher them because they stand in the way
of the peace of Japan.
Unfortunately, Nobunaga was killed before we could know what his true
intentions were, so the validity of that statement can't be measured, but
the fact does stand that the young upstart from Owari province who due to a
freak occurence (destroying Imagawa Yoshimoto on a fluke) changed the course
of Japanese history.
If Yoshimoto had gone through Mino instead of Owari, and challenged or
allied with Saito, things would have been completely different, the Oda may
have been crushed in the mid 1560's by an emperor sanctioned army sent from
Kyoto by the Imagawa...
One could argue that Nobunaga sacrificed a 'normal life' (whatever that
would amount to during the sengoku) for the good of Japan - although that
was probably not his true motivation, but again, he died probably about 6
years too soon to know what his true intentions were - would he have tried
to become Shogun, or taken another title, or ursurp the depose the emperor
and make himself emperor? What if, what if...?

c.w.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: fifthchamber@... [SMTP:fifthchamber@...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:46 AM
> To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] The big question!!
>
> Hello,
> Good question!...
> My 'best' Daimyo would undoubtedly be Takeda Shingen (Harunobu)..where
> can
> you begin with the accomplishments of this man? Organisational
> skills..Earning of respect in his lands ( And from other Daimyo and his
> retainers)..Developing of machinery of government and development of
> agriculture (dam construction and road building etc..) Damn! the list goes
>
> on!
> Who would I have been if I could? Sasaki Shiro Takatsuna of the Uji river
>
> race fame.. What a Samurai! On the method he used to acquire his horse for
>
> the race alone he would have my respect but that on top of being such a
> warrior rates him highly on my list..Failing that (although it has already
>
> been taken!) Yagyu Munenori without a doubt. And after that Miyamoto
> Musashi,
> and after that...See what these questions do to me!
> Abayo!
> Ben.
>
>
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> ---
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>