Tokugawa descendents

Hey.
Just wondering something: do any members of the Tokugawa family still
exist? Or did the name die out with the death of the last (former) Shogun,
Yoshinobu, in 1913? Same thing, and this will probably sound really, REALLY
stupid, but does anyone know if the Oda or Toyotomi family names have survived
into the present day?
And Tony, I'm not offended by your comment about the books. They're
one of only two mystery series I can stand myself, the other being Janet
Evanovich's Stephanie Plum series. I normally read romance, although I'm trying to
branch out this year and read different authors and genres.
Take care. 8-D

L8r.
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eponymous13@... wrote:

> Hey.
> Just wondering something: do any members of the Tokugawa family still
> exist? Or did the name die out with the death of the last (former) Shogun,
> Yoshinobu, in 1913? Same thing, and this will probably sound really, REALLY
> stupid, but does anyone know if the Oda or Toyotomi family names have survived
> into the present day?

Oh, heck. There are scads of Tokugawa out there.

One of the ladies being courted at one time by the current Crown Prince was a
Tokugawa. The Toyotomi were annihilated in 1615, and there are lots of Oda out
there.

> And Tony, I'm not offended by your comment about the books. They're
> one of only two mystery series I can stand myself, the other being Janet
> Evanovich's Stephanie Plum series. I normally read romance, although I'm trying to
> branch out this year and read different authors and genres.

The trouble is, it's hard to find good historic Japan lit in English. The market
is small, and the trap is to explain *enough* so that people unfamiliar will
understand the concepts while not turning off the handful of people who *do*
understand and want the lit.

I'm currently working on a novel that leads up to Sekigahara (in my copious
spare time ) which I would describe as a Japanese version of "Killer Angels."

Tony

--- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:

>
> I'm currently working on a novel that leads up to
> Sekigahara (in my copious
> spare time ) which I would describe as a
> Japanese version of "Killer Angels."
>
> Tony

*DROOL DROOL* TONY, I WANT A COPY THIS INSTANT!!!! I'm
a huge fan of the Shaara family novels, and that would
be the coolest thing ever!!! (Okay, maybe if you had
Nobunaga as the main subject it'd be better, but I'll
take it!)

If you need someone to take a look, let me know!!!

Nate

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Yeah, I'll probably read it too. 8-D

L8r
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> *DROOL DROOL* TONY, I WANT A COPY THIS INSTANT!!!! I'm
> a huge fan of the Shaara family novels, and that would
> be the coolest thing ever!!! (Okay, maybe if you had
> Nobunaga as the main subject it'd be better, but I'll
> take it!)
>
> If you need someone to take a look, let me know!!!

LOL! I'll keep that in mind.

I'm still doing most of the research, but I have some character sketches and
some scenes laid out.

Tony

>

Still around:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20020804b1.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: <Eponymous13@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 6:05 PM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents


> Hey.
> Just wondering something: do any members of the Tokugawa family
still
> exist? Or did the name die out with the death of the last (former)
Shogun,
> Yoshinobu, in 1913? Same thing, and this will probably sound really,
REALLY
> stupid, but does anyone know if the Oda or Toyotomi family names have
survived
> into the present day?
> And Tony, I'm not offended by your comment about the books.
They're
> one of only two mystery series I can stand myself, the other being Janet
> Evanovich's Stephanie Plum series. I normally read romance, although I'm
trying to
> branch out this year and read different authors and genres.
> Take care. 8-D
>
> L8r.
> Tim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/samuraihistory/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I noticed the article was from August 2k2. Did Tokugawa Tsunenari get the
public funding for his project does anyone know?

Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Any way to get a signed copy of that when it comes out?

>From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:17:03 -0500
>
>Eponymous13@... wrote:
>
> > Hey.
> > Just wondering something: do any members of the Tokugawa family
>still
> > exist? Or did the name die out with the death of the last (former)
>Shogun,
> > Yoshinobu, in 1913? Same thing, and this will probably sound really,
>REALLY
> > stupid, but does anyone know if the Oda or Toyotomi family names have
>survived
> > into the present day?
>
>Oh, heck. There are scads of Tokugawa out there.
>
>One of the ladies being courted at one time by the current Crown Prince was
>a
>Tokugawa. The Toyotomi were annihilated in 1615, and there are lots of Oda
>out
>there.
>
>
> > And Tony, I'm not offended by your comment about the books.
>They're
> > one of only two mystery series I can stand myself, the other being Janet
> > Evanovich's Stephanie Plum series. I normally read romance, although
>I'm trying to
> > branch out this year and read different authors and genres.
>
>The trouble is, it's hard to find good historic Japan lit in English. The
>market
>is small, and the trap is to explain *enough* so that people unfamiliar
>will
>understand the concepts while not turning off the handful of people who
>*do*
>understand and want the lit.
>
>I'm currently working on a novel that leads up to Sekigahara (in my copious
>spare time ) which I would describe as a Japanese version of "Killer
>Angels."
>
>Tony
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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< copious
spare time ) which I would describe as a Japanese version of "Killer
Angels."

Tony>>

Even though I will among the first to grab this I would rather read Osprey
work on the Onin War or the Mongol Invasions you hinted at before.

Randall Edwards wrote:

> Any way to get a signed copy of that when it comes out?

\

>>I'm currently working on a novel that leads up to Sekigahara (in my copious
>>spare time ) which I would describe as a Japanese version of "Killer
>>Angels."

\
You're making quite a leap. -- That's a long way from the required "if"


Tony

True, but it never hurts to ask. Good luck with your endeavor sir!



Randall Edwards
NOVA Technical Solutions

>From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:55:42 -0500
>
>Randall Edwards wrote:
> > Any way to get a signed copy of that when it comes out?
>\
> >>I'm currently working on a novel that leads up to Sekigahara (in my
>copious
> >>spare time ) which I would describe as a Japanese version of
>"Killer
> >>Angels."
>\
>You're making quite a leap. -- That's a long way from the required "if"
>
>
>Tony
>

_________________________________________________________________
Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed
experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1

Randall Edwards wrote:

> True, but it never hurts to ask. Good luck with your endeavor sir!
>

LOL!

Well, I definitely appreciate the *positive* attitude and sentiments.

Muchos arigatos!


Tony

Thiago,
Konnichi wa, tomodachi

>
> Christopher: I enjoyed very much reading your email.

Addressing negative traits are as important as addressing
positive ones in a sincere discussion about any topic.

I too enjoy a good discussion, and though I pointed out some of
the negative traits, I also agree that there were many positive
ones.

> Perhaps another interesting aspect may be retrieved from the

"Last Samurai" motion picture. It is clear that the movie suggests
the rebellion were being lead in order to preserve tradition and
honor (the Emperor´s counselours are portraied as greedy and
selfish, whereas the "Samurai" are only honour bound).
However, how absurd is conceiving the rebellion as a device to
attempt return to the "status quo"? Certainly, the "Samurai", as a
class, knew they would lose their prestige and power with the
Restoration and the open trade (before the Emperor, the
Tokugawa Bafuku agreed on trade terms). Would they be fighting
for their status rather by just simple plain honour?

Being the perpetual optimist I tent to be, I would like to think that
the leaders of the time - from the daimyo down the chain to the
"simple" samurai, had not only their own interests in mind, but
those of their support mechanisms ie:the pesants and
merchants. This was, and is not always the case, of course.

Even the most dull of samurai should have been aware of the
times - trade was increasing and merchants were rising in real,
if not "official" power, even as in modern times. Communication
was better than it ever was, which was increasing the education
of the people.
In earlier days, I can see how a public that had little
communication between han and city might not be aware of the
plight of others around their immediate surroundings.
It was in the controlling governments interest to maintain an
imposed "quarantine" so their authority could not be challenged.
Since the movie does not actually portray the actual Satsuma
rebellion, I cringe slightly to suppose what the motives for those
"samurai" really could be.

Any person in charge of a group of people might resent, to a
small or large degree,when someone or something threatens to
remove their power. For the samurai, I believe this to be so.
They may have had honor as a partial motive - it would seem
dis-honorable to be removed from a public position. They may
have viewed any particular actions they took to defend their
income as a necessity, and not really saw anything wrong in
their methods, so it may have not occured to them to try to
cultivate some sort of middle ground between the government
position, and their own.
They tried to give it the "my way or the tokaido way..." treatment.

As to the ministers and the councel being portrayed as greedy -
but the Samurai position as being honor bound and nobel
seems to be a typical literary mechanism to buy the sympathies
of the reader (or viewer...) They could not have showed the
samurai chastizing merchants and exacting tax money from
starving peasants in the first minutes of the film and keep people
interested in the samurai for long. That would have led to a
rebellion right there in the theater!! :-)

>
> These are just considerations and questions, please do not

take them as offensive. I bear deep respect for the subject at
hand.

How can I, or anyone else take intelligent discussion as
offensive! I hope I did not sound that way...


Christopher

> Cheers,
>
> Thiago
>

Speaking of books does anyone know where I can pick up a copy of

Early Samurai AD 200�1500. Appearently Osprey is reprinting this but it
will not be available until April. I have checked a few other places on the
web but it seems to be out of stock.



Randall Edwards

>From: "Randall Edwards" <tcma66@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:10:35 +0000
>
>True, but it never hurts to ask. Good luck with your endeavor sir!
>
>
>
>Randall Edwards
>NOVA Technical Solutions
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
> >Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> >To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents
> >Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:55:42 -0500
> >
> >Randall Edwards wrote:
> > > Any way to get a signed copy of that when it comes out?
> >\
> > >>I'm currently working on a novel that leads up to Sekigahara (in my
> >copious
> > >>spare time ) which I would describe as a Japanese version of
> >"Killer
> > >>Angels."
> >\
> >You're making quite a leap. -- That's a long way from the required "if"
>
> >
> >
> >Tony
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed
>experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1
>

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< Early Samurai AD 200・500. Apparently Osprey is reprinting this but it
will not be available until April. I have checked a few other places on the
web but it seems to be out of stock.
Randall Edwards>>

Try this place. When I last checked they had some as low as 10 bucks


http://used.addall.com/

Not sure if this went out already but, "Doh" I found it and bought it.
Please ignore the earlier post. Sorry for any inconviences.



Randall Edwards


n

>From: "Randall Edwards" <tcma66@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents
>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:33:41 +0000
>
>
>Speaking of books does anyone know where I can pick up a copy of
>
>Early Samurai AD 200�1500. Appearently Osprey is reprinting this but it
>will not be available until April. I have checked a few other places on
>the
>web but it seems to be out of stock.
>
>
>
>Randall Edwards
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Randall Edwards" <tcma66@...>
> >Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> >To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents
> >Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:10:35 +0000
> >
> >True, but it never hurts to ask. Good luck with your endeavor sir!
> >
> >
> >
> >Randall Edwards
> >NOVA Technical Solutions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
> > >Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents
> > >Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:55:42 -0500
> > >
> > >Randall Edwards wrote:
> > > > Any way to get a signed copy of that when it comes out?
> > >\
> > > >>I'm currently working on a novel that leads up to Sekigahara (in my
> > >copious
> > > >>spare time ) which I would describe as a Japanese version of
> > >"Killer
> > > >>Angels."
> > >\
> > >You're making quite a leap. -- That's a long way from the required "if"
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your
>high-speed
> >experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>What are the 5 hot job markets for 2004? Click here to find out.
>http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/WPI_WhereWillWeFindJobsIn2004.htm?siteid=CBMSN3006&sc_extcmp=JS_wi08_dec03_hotmail1
>
>
>---
>Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
>Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
>---
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/samuraihistory/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Thank you very much!



Randall Edwards
NOVA Technical Solutions

>From: "William&Mikiko Letham" <mickey.letham@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Tokugawa descendents
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:43:00 +0900
>
>< >Early Samurai AD 200�E500. Apparently Osprey is reprinting this but it
>will not be available until April. I have checked a few other places on
>the
>web but it seems to be out of stock.
>Randall Edwards>>
>
>Try this place. When I last checked they had some as low as 10 bucks
>
>
>http://used.addall.com/
>

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