Japanese Samurai History - Concerning Samurai clothing

#350 [2001-11-19 09:21:42]

Concerning Samurai clothing

by brom_cesare

I would like to know if samurai had to wear Hakama or was it by rank
or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't follow bushido then
they didn't wear them?

[Next #352]

#352 [2001-11-20 08:16:53]

Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

by fifthchamber

Hello,
I believe that the answer to the Hakama problem really lies in what type of
Hakama you are talking about..Hakama were generally worn by by everyone. In
much the same way as 'most' men wear trousers nowadays they were simply
adapted to the users purpose. (Hence the 'tucked up' varieties for farmers
and people who had to 'wade' in things[Blood for instance..sick but still]
etc..
I don't believe that Hakama were formalised at all. But then again my
knowledge of Pro-Tokugawa (1600 onwards) is not as detailed as before these
dates.
Check a search in E-Budo for the same question for a (MUCH!!) wider response.
Hope this helps you.
Ben Sharples

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#353 [2001-11-20 09:19:28]

Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

by sengokudaimyo

oblivion@... wrote:

> I would like to know if samurai had to wear Hakama or was it by rank
> or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't follow bushido then
> they didn't wear them?
>

Go to http://www.sengokudaimyo.com and follow the link to the garb page,
then to the men's outfits and clothing.

The readers' digest answer is, "no, he didn't *have* to, but you don't
*have* to wear pants, either." Basically throughout Japanese history anyone
with any class -- even peasants -- wore pants. It wasn't until the Edo
period that you see people walking around in public in their underwear
(kosode/kimono). People of breeding or just desirous of not coming across as
a total scum wore something OVER their kimono until the 1600s, whether a
kataginu (a sideless vest) or a dobuku (the forerunner of the haori).

Tony

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#354 [2001-11-20 09:24:49]

Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

by musashieb

Hello,

Hakama were never formalized into a must wear
necessity. There were different forms of hakama that
were worn at different times. There was even a long
version worn in the shoguns palace during the edo
period that were very hard to move around in. During
the summer some samurai would wear kimono or a shorter
version of the hakama. These were common to foot
soldiers in the summer. For very formal occassions
during the late sengoku jidai and the tokugawa/edo
period they would wear something called kamishimo
which was essentially a hakama and a stiff shouldered
top that covered there kimono or whatever particular
shirt they were wearing. These could be formalized
for a particular daimyo and or family.

Hope this is helpful

Musashi
--- oblivion@... wrote:

> I would like to know if samurai had to wear Hakama
> or was it by rank
> or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't
> follow bushido then
> they didn't wear them?
>
>

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#355 [2001-11-20 04:51:51]

Re: Concerning Samurai clothing

by megadrop2000

--- In samuraihistory@y..., oblivion@a... wrote:

> I would like to know if samurai had to wear Hakama or was it by rank
> or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't follow bushido then
> they didn't wear them?

The Hakama was a prefered garment. The Kimono bound the legs and made shiko (knee walking for indoors) very difficult. The Hakama was also heavily desinged for horsemanship (jobajitsu)which the Kimono was not. In Martial arts training halls it was the norm. as recently as the 1950's, students of Aikido founder Morihei Ueshiba were sent home from training if they did not have Hakama, only zubon (pants) with them.

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#356 [2001-11-20 09:49:36]

Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

by brom_cesare

Thank you that was very helpful. :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "erik baker" <musashieb@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

> Hello,
>
> Hakama were never formalized into a must wear
> necessity. There were different forms of hakama that
> were worn at different times. There was even a long
> version worn in the shoguns palace during the edo
> period that were very hard to move around in. During
> the summer some samurai would wear kimono or a shorter
> version of the hakama. These were common to foot
> soldiers in the summer. For very formal occassions
> during the late sengoku jidai and the tokugawa/edo
> period they would wear something called kamishimo
> which was essentially a hakama and a stiff shouldered
> top that covered there kimono or whatever particular
> shirt they were wearing. These could be formalized
> for a particular daimyo and or family.
>
> Hope this is helpful
>
> Musashi
> --- oblivion@... wrote:
> > I would like to know if samurai had to wear Hakama
> > or was it by rank
> > or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't
> > follow bushido then
> > they didn't wear them?
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
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> ---
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>
>
>
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>
>

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#357 [2001-11-21 07:35:51]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Concerning Samurai clothing

by brom_cesare

Do you mean prefered as in they all wanted to wear it or that they wore it
at different times & occasions when it was required?

----- Original Message -----
From: <lbmd@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:51 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Concerning Samurai clothing

> --- In samuraihistory@y..., oblivion@a... wrote:
> > I would like to know if samurai had to wear Hakama or was it by rank
> > or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't follow bushido then
> > they didn't wear them?
>
> The Hakama was a prefered garment. The Kimono bound the legs and made
shiko (knee walking for indoors) very difficult. The Hakama was also heavily
desinged for horsemanship (jobajitsu)which the Kimono was not. In Martial
arts training halls it was the norm. as recently as the 1950's, students of
Aikido founder Morihei Ueshiba were sent home from training if they did not
have Hakama, only zubon (pants) with them.
>
>
>
>
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> ---
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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#358 [2001-11-21 09:22:13]

Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

by brom_cesare

You know its funny just how many people don't know the answer...I've asked
tons of people for research, for a reinactments project I'm working on. So
far your the only one thats made sense. One guy told me that all peoples in
japan wore them, or the variations of them. I've seen many movies where they
didn't wear hakama. For instance Seven Samurai....Akira Kurisawa was a
perfectionist he wanted everything accurate so I'm inclined to think they
didn't all have to wear them. But I needed some second oppinions on the
matter. Thanks a bunch.

----- Original Message -----
From: "erik baker" <musashieb@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

> Hello,
>
> Hakama were never formalized into a must wear
> necessity. There were different forms of hakama that
> were worn at different times. There was even a long
> version worn in the shoguns palace during the edo
> period that were very hard to move around in. During
> the summer some samurai would wear kimono or a shorter
> version of the hakama. These were common to foot
> soldiers in the summer. For very formal occassions
> during the late sengoku jidai and the tokugawa/edo
> period they would wear something called kamishimo
> which was essentially a hakama and a stiff shouldered
> top that covered there kimono or whatever particular
> shirt they were wearing. These could be formalized
> for a particular daimyo and or family.
>
> Hope this is helpful
>
> Musashi
> --- oblivion@... wrote:
> > I would like to know if samurai had to wear Hakama
> > or was it by rank
> > or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't
> > follow bushido then
> > they didn't wear them?
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>
>
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> ---
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[Previous #357] [Next #359]

#359 [2001-11-22 06:31:21]

Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

by musashieb

Thanks,

You have to remember that history is a very hard
subject to give solid info on because of the usually
second hand information that is used. Don't let your
experience with this ruin your interest in this
mailing group as their are many people who know there
stuff. Anthony J. Bryant is only one of these.

Thank you very much for the return email. I hope that
in the future if I have a question you might be there
to help me.

Musashi
--- Oblivion <oblivion@...> wrote:

> You know its funny just how many people don't know
> the answer...I've asked
> tons of people for research, for a reinactments
> project I'm working on. So
> far your the only one thats made sense. One guy told
> me that all peoples in
> japan wore them, or the variations of them. I've
> seen many movies where they
> didn't wear hakama. For instance Seven
> Samurai....Akira Kurisawa was a
> perfectionist he wanted everything accurate so I'm
> inclined to think they
> didn't all have to wear them. But I needed some
> second oppinions on the
> matter. Thanks a bunch.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "erik baker" <musashieb@...>
> To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai
> clothing
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Hakama were never formalized into a must wear
> > necessity. There were different forms of hakama
> that
> > were worn at different times. There was even a
> long
> > version worn in the shoguns palace during the edo
> > period that were very hard to move around in.
> During
> > the summer some samurai would wear kimono or a
> shorter
> > version of the hakama. These were common to foot
> > soldiers in the summer. For very formal
> occassions
> > during the late sengoku jidai and the tokugawa/edo
> > period they would wear something called kamishimo
> > which was essentially a hakama and a stiff
> shouldered
> > top that covered there kimono or whatever
> particular
> > shirt they were wearing. These could be
> formalized
> > for a particular daimyo and or family.
> >
> > Hope this is helpful
> >
> > Musashi
> > --- oblivion@... wrote:
> > > I would like to know if samurai had to wear
> Hakama
> > > or was it by rank
> > > or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't
> > > follow bushido then
> > > they didn't wear them?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site
> hosting, just $8.95/month.
> > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> >
> >
> > Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> > ---
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>

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#360 [2001-11-22 07:51:30]

Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

by konos

----- Original Message -----
From: Oblivion <oblivion@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing

> You know its funny just how many people don't know the answer...I've asked
> tons of people for research, for a reinactments project I'm working on. So
> far your the only one thats made sense. One guy told me that all peoples
in
> japan wore them, or the variations of them. I've seen many movies where
they
> didn't wear hakama. For instance Seven Samurai....Akira Kurisawa was a
> perfectionist he wanted everything accurate so I'm inclined to think they
> didn't all have to wear them. But I needed some second oppinions on the
> matter. Thanks a bunch.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "erik baker" <musashieb@...>
> To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Concerning Samurai clothing
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Hakama were never formalized into a must wear
> > necessity. There were different forms of hakama that
> > were worn at different times. There was even a long
> > version worn in the shoguns palace during the edo
> > period that were very hard to move around in. During
> > the summer some samurai would wear kimono or a shorter
> > version of the hakama. These were common to foot
> > soldiers in the summer. For very formal occassions
> > during the late sengoku jidai and the tokugawa/edo
> > period they would wear something called kamishimo
> > which was essentially a hakama and a stiff shouldered
> > top that covered there kimono or whatever particular
> > shirt they were wearing. These could be formalized
> > for a particular daimyo and or family.
> >
> > Hope this is helpful
> >
> > Musashi
> > --- oblivion@... wrote:
> > > I would like to know if samurai had to wear Hakama
> > > or was it by rank
> > > or preference? Or was it so that if they didn't
> > > follow bushido then
> > > they didn't wear them?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> >
> >
> > Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> > ---
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> ---
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> From Konstantinos greetings. Remember the 13 articles of law called
Buke-Shohatto, during Tokugawa Shogunate. In articles 9-11 prescribed the
clothing that each class was to wear. Greetings form Greece

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