Re: From Leprechaun Jack Murphy: Romans vs Samurai Redux-..

'Tis true...to a point. My purpose had two thrusts. The question of the
swords may end in a draw. However, the fact remains that in nearly ten
centuries, the fatal flaw in armor, under the arm pit, was never addressed by
Japanese armorers. As a matter of fact, in Europe one can go back farther than
the Eleventh Century to find such protection, Tom. As early as the Third
Century AD, at the archaeologic site at Dura Europos, one finds among the
cataphractii and clibinarii of the Persian and Roman cavalry full coverage, either in
plate or scale armor, of this vital area. Any thrust, there, of course would
penetrate either lung or deeper in the heart itself. As far as shields are
concerned, they were used at least as early as the time of the Trojan War,
circa Thirteenth Century BC, Jack


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Any thrust, there, of course would
penetrate either lung or deeper in the heart itself"

The skin of the arm pit is very soft and thin, with maojor arteries lying close to the surface of the skin. Whether the blade penetrated there or not, it the personis likely to bleed to death. Itd be like slicing across the jugular. I saw on a documentary "Ancient Warriors" on TLC a few years ago, that a slice from a katana could kill a man there in something like 8 seconds (I'll watch the video again to be sure, and let you know if that number is off. Same thing as the wrists. Japanese armour doesnt do the greatest job at protecting the inner wrist.

Wilson


--

--------- Original Message ---------
DATE: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:35:14
From: murphymurphyjohn@...
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Cc:

'Tis true...to a point. My purpose had two thrusts. The question of the
swords may end in a draw. However, the fact remains that in nearly ten
centuries, the fatal flaw in armor, under the arm pit, was never addressed by
Japanese armorers. As a matter of fact, in Europe one can go back farther than
the Eleventh Century to find such protection, Tom. As early as the Third
Century AD, at the archaeologic site at Dura Europos, one finds among the
cataphractii and clibinarii of the Persian and Roman cavalry full coverage, either in
plate or scale armor, of this vital area. Any thrust, there, of course would
penetrate either lung or deeper in the heart itself. As far as shields are
concerned, they were used at least as early as the time of the Trojan War,
circa Thirteenth Century BC, Jack


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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" However, the fact remains that in nearly ten

>centuries, the fatal flaw in armor, under the arm pit, was never
>addressed by
>Japanese armorers. "

I suggest you do a search on the term "wakibiki". You are making
unqualified statements without doing proper research.

Mykaru/ M.J.Peters

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Jack-
Not sure why I seem to be the only one responding here but FWIW;

I believe that there was indeed protection for the armpit incorporated

Jack-
Not sure why I seem to be the only one responding here but FWIW;

I believe that there was indeed protection for the armpit incorporated
in Japanese armour, and as early as the eleventh century. The kyubi no
ita and sendan no ita were plates of armour attached to the front of
the oyoroi that covered the armpits when the wearer raised his arms to
fire his bow.
For me I guess the question is why were they fazed out in the
Muromachi period?
-t

HI

there is an armpit attachment that is called wakibiki
(sp)

I have train in yoroi with one attached and it was a
pain

Paul


--- Tom Helm <junkmail@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Jack-
Not sure why I seem to be the only one responding here
but FWIW;

I believe that there was indeed protection for
the armpit incorporated
in Japanese armour, and as early as the eleventh
century. The kyubi no
ita and sendan no ita were plates of armour attached
to the front of
the oyoroi that covered the armpits when the wearer
raised his arms to
fire his bow.
For me I guess the question is why were they
fazed out in the
Muromachi period?
-t



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