> i jsut saw the last samurai and was wondering how much of it wasAnd people ask me why I curse whenever someone mentions that damned film in my
> fact and are there still samurai today thanks
> longhunter1748 wrote:Tony, I don't think the problem is with the movie, which is actually
>
> > i jsut saw the last samurai and was wondering how much of it was
> > fact and are there still samurai today thanks
>
>
> And people ask me why I curse whenever someone mentions that damned
> film in my
> presence. Sigh.
>
> It is complete unmitigated fiction. And no, there are no more samurai;
> they
> ceased to exist with the stroke of a legislative pen (okay, a brush)
> in the 1870s.
>
> Tony
>
> i jsut saw the last samurai and was wondering how__________________________________
> much of it was
> fact and are there still samurai today thanks
>
> you can email me back with any help at
> longhunter1748@...
>
>
>
> longhunter1748 wrote:__________________________________
>
> > i jsut saw the last samurai and was wondering how
> much of it was
> > fact and are there still samurai today thanks
>
>
> And people ask me why I curse whenever someone
> mentions that damned film in my
> presence. Sigh.
>
> It is complete unmitigated fiction. And no, there
> are no more samurai; they
> ceased to exist with the stroke of a legislative pen
> (okay, a brush) in the 1870s.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:__________________________________
>
> > longhunter1748 wrote:
> >
> > > i jsut saw the last samurai and was wondering
> how much of it was
> > > fact and are there still samurai today thanks
> >
> >
> > And people ask me why I curse whenever someone
> mentions that damned
> > film in my
> > presence. Sigh.
> >
> > It is complete unmitigated fiction. And no, there
> are no more samurai;
> > they
> > ceased to exist with the stroke of a legislative
> pen (okay, a brush)
> > in the 1870s.
> >
> > Tony
> >
>
> Tony, I don't think the problem is with the movie,
> which is actually
> quite good (as a movie - NOT documentary).
>
> Let's keep a positive, open-minded spirit.
>
> Gaman, gaman!!! ;o)
> cepo
>
>
> no, no samurai today. hence the title of the movie.Well, the battle scene in gladiator reminded me of the
> and parts of it were true, parts werent... just like
> most historical movies (gladiator comes to mind, but
> the differences are a bit more pronounced in
> samurai).
>
> i jsut saw the last samurai and was wondering how much of it wasAnd people ask me why I curse whenever someone mentions that damned film in
> fact and are there still samurai today thanks
>>
On Dec 7, 2003, at 5:22 PM, The Angry Llama wrote:
> u think it was still a brush back then? i mean, with
> all the western influence craze of the time.
>
> --- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
> > longhunter1748 wrote:
> >
> > > i jsut saw the last samurai and was wondering how
> > much of it was
> > > fact and are there still samurai today thanks
> >
> >
> > And people ask me why I curse whenever someone
> > mentions that damned film in my
> > presence. Sigh.
> >
> > It is complete unmitigated fiction. And no, there
> > are no more samurai; they
> > ceased to exist with the stroke of a legislative pen
> > (okay, a brush) in the 1870s.
> >
> > Tony
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I suppose because it's late that my twisted lawyer's mind is lookingInterestingly, I have asked a gazillion of young Japanese friends what
> at this
> question sideways (are there still samurai?), but I suppose it's
> analogous to
> the question of whether or not there is still French, German, or
> Russian
> royalty.
>
> There are certainly claimants to these thrones, even though the
> thrones were
> abolished with the stroke of a pen (ok, sometimes the stroke was
> accompanied
> by a revolution, but you get my drift). Still, the legislation
> abolishing the
> existence of the monarchy doesn't stop people from claiming to be
> royal.
>
> In the same way, I suppose that someone with the proper ancestry could
> still
> claim to be samurai, even if the law does not recognize his or her
> claim.
>
> Bob Burke
> Interestingly, I have asked a gazillion of young__________________________________
> Japanese friends what
> was their family doing in the Tokugawa period, and
> only TWO could
> answer. My wife comes from
> a noble family of
> scholars from Kyoto, but she did not know!! I had to
> do the research
> for her!!!! Phew.
> cepo
>
> Dear Cesare:
> I do appreciate for your extensive study and stay in
> Japan and bondage through your marriage. But, let me
> tell you one story...
>
> One of American professors I used to know personally
> stayed for only a few days in Japan when he was in his
> early thirties. Yet, he met the Japanese prime
> minister for a talk.
> Staying 5 years in Japan and interrogating 'a
> gazillion of' young Japanese friends sounds indeed
> scholastic.
> But I wonder if it would be the same experience for
> you if you also could visit Japan 5 days and meet a
> Japanese prime minister and other noble families.
>
> Maybe, you have to expand your Japanese network with
> more emphasis on quality instead on quantity.
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
>
>
> Changsub Lee
>
>
> > Interestingly, I have asked a gazillion of young
> > Japanese friends what
> > was their family doing in the Tokugawa period, and
> > only TWO could
> > answer. My wife comes from
> > a noble family of
> > scholars from Kyoto, but she did not know!! I had to
> > do the research
> > for her!!!! Phew.
> > cepo
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
On Dec 8, 2003, at 3:50 PM, Kitsuno wrote:
> I in no way interpreted what he had written as 'scholarship', simply
> an informal poll that supports the general view that the Japanese
> don't know thier history - just like most everyone else (although
> the Bushido followers in the West tend to think Japan is still the
> land of Bushido and Samurai). So I find your 'story' a bit
> unrelated...
>
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Lee Changsub
> wrote:
> > Dear Cesare:
> > I do appreciate for your extensive study and stay in
> > Japan and bondage through your marriage. But, let me
> > tell you one story...
> >
> > One of American professors I used to know personally
> > stayed for only a few days in Japan when he was in his
> > early thirties. Yet, he met the Japanese prime
> > minister for a talk.
> > Staying 5 years in Japan and interrogating 'a
> > gazillion of' young Japanese friends sounds indeed
> > scholastic.
> > But I wonder if it would be the same experience for
> > you if you also could visit Japan 5 days and meet a
> > Japanese prime minister and other noble families.
> >
> > Maybe, you have to expand your Japanese network with
> > more emphasis on quality instead on quantity.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >���������������������������� Sincerely,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >���������������������������� Changsub Lee
> >
> >
> > > Interestingly, I have asked a gazillion of young
> > > Japanese friends what
> > > was their family doing in the Tokugawa period, and
> > > only TWO could
> > > answer. My wife comes from
> > > a noble family of
> > > scholars from Kyoto, but she did not know!! I had to
> > > do the research
> > > for her!!!! Phew.
> > > cepo
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> >http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
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> ---
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> All-follow
> Rather than "endure" these newbie questions, we really should
> Cepo's advice and add a "What is a Samurai" FAQ to the historypage.
> Let's politely suggest new members follow the link and read thecomes
> material. If we all follow the same response each time a newbie
> online no ONE of us need shoulder the burden of bursting bubbles.If
> they persist in their delusions, then we can flame away. While Ifind
> it entertaining I think it represents us poorly when new membersare
> beaten up with their first post...
> -t
> longhunter1748 wrote:__________________________________
>
> > i jsut saw the last samurai and was wondering how
> much of it was
> > fact and are there still samurai today thanks
>
>
> And people ask me why I curse whenever someone
> mentions that damned film in my
> presence. Sigh.
>
> It is complete unmitigated fiction. And no, there
> are no more samurai; they
> ceased to exist with the stroke of a legislative pen
> (okay, a brush) in the 1870s.
>
> Tony
>
>
> Tony--No, I've not seen it yet. I don't know when (or whether) I'll go.
>
> Have you seen it? I could care less what some wannabe
> ninja turtle thinks about it. What did you think about
> it? I haven't seen it yet--I'll be going on Friday.
> Some more important things (like seeing my wife for
> the first time in 6 months) have been taking up my
> time.
> Nate Ledbetter wrote:flawed film from a
> > Tony--
> >
> > Have you seen it? I could care less what some wannabe
> > ninja turtle thinks about it. What did you think about
> > it? I haven't seen it yet--I'll be going on Friday.
> > Some more important things (like seeing my wife for
> > the first time in 6 months) have been taking up my
> > time.
>
> No, I've not seen it yet. I don't know when (or whether) I'll go.
>
> I feel very much about it the way I do Braveheart: a horribly
> historical perspective which, frankly, I wish had never been made.I've never
> been able to sit through an entire Braveheart, either.I dunno Tony, I mean, come on, are you going to hate Star Wars just
>
>
> Tony
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant"I would push it even a bit further. I do not believe they are
>wrote:
> > Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> > > Tony--
> > >
> > > Have you seen it? I could care less what some wannabe
> > > ninja turtle thinks about it. What did you think about
> > > it? I haven't seen it yet--I'll be going on Friday.
> > > Some more important things (like seeing my wife for
> > > the first time in 6 months) have been taking up my
> > > time.
> >
> > No, I've not seen it yet. I don't know when (or whether) I'll go.
> >
> > I feel very much about it the way I do Braveheart: a horribly
> flawed film from a
> > historical perspective which, frankly, I wish had never been made.
> I've never
> > been able to sit through an entire Braveheart, either.
> >
> >
> > Tony
>
> I dunno Tony, I mean, come on, are you going to hate Star Wars just
> because lightsabers and hyperspace and sound in space are all
> impossible? It bugs me too when people take stuff like Highlander
> and the Last Samurai and Glory and are suddendly historical experts.
> But there's something to fantasy and fiction, and I mean, Braveheart
> and The Last Samurai, while being historically innaccurate, are
> pretty good movies.
>__________________________________
> On Dec 9, 2003, at 6:16 PM, Kyle Segall wrote:
>
> > --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony J.
> Bryant"
> >wrote:
> > > Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> > > > Tony--
> > > >
> > > > Have you seen it? I could care less what some
> wannabe
> > > > ninja turtle thinks about it. What did you
> think about
> > > > it? I haven't seen it yet--I'll be going on
> Friday.
> > > > Some more important things (like seeing my
> wife for
> > > > the first time in 6 months) have been taking
> up my
> > > > time.
> > >
> > > No, I've not seen it yet. I don't know when (or
> whether) I'll go.
> > >
> > > I feel very much about it the way I do
> Braveheart: a horribly
> > flawed film from a
> > > historical perspective which, frankly, I wish
> had never been made.
> > I've never
> > > been able to sit through an entire Braveheart,
> either.
> > >
> > >
> > > Tony
> >
> > I dunno Tony, I mean, come on, are you going to
> hate Star Wars just
> > because lightsabers and hyperspace and sound in
> space are all
> > impossible? It bugs me too when people take stuff
> like Highlander
> > and the Last Samurai and Glory and are suddendly
> historical experts.
> > But there's something to fantasy and fiction, and
> I mean, Braveheart
> > and The Last Samurai, while being historically
> innaccurate, are
> > pretty good movies.
>
> I would push it even a bit further. I do not believe
> they are
> "inaccurate." Inaccurate would be something that
> wants to be
> historically accurate but it's not. Here we talk
> about plain historical
> FICTION. The two main characters of "The Last
> Samurai" are NOT
> historical characters, so, to expect accuracy is a
> paradox. This is a
> major Hollywood production that entertains for a
> couple of hours, and
> that's it. It has been done to make $$$, and
> features one of the most
> popular actors in the world. It's not a cult-movie
> for a bunch of
> scholars of the samurai. So, take it or leave it,
> but if we criticize
> the movie, we should do so thinking of what the
> movie IS, not what we
> would like the movie TO BE.
> cepo
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
> I dunno Tony, I mean, come on, are you going to hate Star Wars justSurely you aren't comparing SF/fantasy to historical epics...
> because lightsabers and hyperspace and sound in space are all
> impossible?
> It bugs me too when people take stuff like HighlanderPerhaps, but not enough people *get it* that they're just movies.
> and the Last Samurai and Glory and are suddendly historical experts.
> But there's something to fantasy and fiction, and I mean, Braveheart
> and The Last Samurai, while being historically innaccurate, are
> pretty good movies.
> I would push it even a bit further. I do not believe they areI take a much harder view. "Dances With Wolves" is historical fiction, but it
> "inaccurate." Inaccurate would be something that wants to be
> historically accurate but it's not. Here we talk about plain historical
> FICTION. The two main characters of "The Last Samurai" are NOT
> historical characters, so, to expect accuracy is a paradox. This is a
> major Hollywood production that entertains for a couple of hours, and
> that's it. It has been done to make $$$, and features one of the most
> popular actors in the world. It's not a cult-movie for a bunch of
> scholars of the samurai. So, take it or leave it, but if we criticize
> the movie, we should do so thinking of what the movie IS, not what we
> would like the movie TO BE.
>You are right, Nate, but these movies are not out there to educate -
> The problem isn't with the STORY--heck, if we can
> accept Shogun, we can accept anything. It's the
> details that are flat WRONG, and perpetuate the myths.
> That's what is so frustrating. I'll go see the movie,
> and I might even enjoy it, but I will not understand
> why you can't make a good movie that's not a bunch of
> cliches and hogwash.
>
> Nate
> Kyle Segall wrote:__________________________________
>
>
> > I dunno Tony, I mean, come on, are you going to
> hate Star Wars just
> > because lightsabers and hyperspace and sound in
> space are all
> > impossible?
>
> Surely you aren't comparing SF/fantasy to historical
> epics...
>
> > It bugs me too when people take stuff like
> Highlander
> > and the Last Samurai and Glory and are suddendly
> historical experts.
> > But there's something to fantasy and fiction, and
> I mean, Braveheart
> > and The Last Samurai, while being historically
> innaccurate, are
> > pretty good movies.
>
> Perhaps, but not enough people *get it* that they're
> just movies.
>
> Tony
>
>
>Ok Tony, but why do you think so? The only "historical" character in
> (cut) "Braveheart" masquerades as history, as does "Last Samurai."
>
> Ick.
>
> Tony
> Kyle Segall wrote:just
>
>
> > I dunno Tony, I mean, come on, are you going to hate Star Wars
> > because lightsabers and hyperspace and sound in space are allHeh, no, Im just saying for someone with historical knowledge to
> > impossible?
>
> Surely you aren't comparing SF/fantasy to historical epics...
>experts.
> > It bugs me too when people take stuff like Highlander
> > and the Last Samurai and Glory and are suddendly historical
> > But there's something to fantasy and fiction, and I mean,Braveheart
> > and The Last Samurai, while being historically innaccurate, areFair enough... still, its not always the movie's fault. some people
> > pretty good movies.
>
> Perhaps, but not enough people *get it* that they're just movies.
>
> Tony
> I dunno Tony, I mean, come on, are you going to hate Star Wars justSurely you aren't comparing SF/fantasy to historical epics...
> because lightsabers and hyperspace and sound in space are all
> impossible?
> It bugs me too when people take stuff like HighlanderPerhaps, but not enough people *get it* that they're just movies.
> and the Last Samurai and Glory and are suddendly historical experts.
> But there's something to fantasy and fiction, and I mean, Braveheart
> and The Last Samurai, while being historically innaccurate, are
> pretty good movies.
> Okay granted that the characters were not real. But the event didOff the top of my head, I don't believe I've ever heard of such a thing...
> actually happen. Where a last bastion of samurai face up against the
> modern japanese army. The battle was called the gunpowder or
> gunpowder keg rebellion. I don't know the exact year it happen but,
> what the movie was trying to portray historically accurate was the
> gunpowder or gunpowder keg rebellion.
> Tony Dude, sounds like you need to get that its jsut a movie and drop it. ISurely you've noticed that I'm *not* ranting.
> signed up here to learn, not listen to bitch fests about how much hollywood
> sucks.. at this rate your gonna die of a heart attack b4 your next birthday..
> chill man..
> On Dec 10, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Anthony J. BryantI
> mean: what's theThe problem isn't on our end. It's with the endless
> problem in admitting it is simply entertaining
> historical fiction, and
> amen?
> cepo
> the_real_sixstringsamurai wrote:Yep... me neither... errrrrr...
>
> > Okay granted that the characters were not real. But the event did
> > actually happen. Where a last bastion of samurai face up against the
> > modern japanese army. The battle was called the gunpowder or
> > gunpowder keg rebellion. I don't know the exact year it happen but,
> > what the movie was trying to portray historically accurate was the
> > gunpowder or gunpowder keg rebellion.
>
> Off the top of my head, I don't believe I've ever heard of such a
> thing...
>
> Tony
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I becameWhat gets our goat is that the actual History is so much cooler and
> interested in romantic visions of honor back when I
> was a child. I think it's important to know the truth
> about things, but not to let it destroy your sense of
> romance.
>
>
On Dec 11, 2003, at 3:03 PM, Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> The problem isn't on our end. It's with the endless
> string of knuckleheads who will take it as history
> rather than fiction, who bleed Hagakure, who think
> they can BE samurai, since Tom Cruise was one. That's
> the problem.
>
> Nate
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Dec 11, 2003, at 11:24 AM, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:
> the_real_sixstringsamurai wrote:
>
> > Okay granted that the characters were not real. But the event did
> > actually happen. Where a last bastion of samurai face up against the
> > modern japanese army. The battle was called the gunpowder or
> > gunpowder keg rebellion. I don't know the exact year it happen but,
> > what the movie was trying to portray historically accurate was the
> > gunpowder or gunpowder keg rebellion.
>
> Off the top of my head, I don't believe I've ever heard of such a
> thing...
>
> Tony
Yep... me neither... errrrrr...
cepo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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