> Hi all,
>
> I'm new. Hope I'm in the right place to ask this. I'm researching
> key figures of the Shinsengumi, particularly Isami Kondo and
> Kamo Serizawa. They were of course members of the
> Shinsengumi, but I've also run accross something called the
> Shinchogumi. It that the same thing? If not, what is it?
>
> Any help much appreciated,
>
> St. John Lord Merridewe
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new. Hope I'm in the right place to ask this. I'm researching
> key figures of the Shinsengumi, particularly Isami Kondo and
> Kamo Serizawa. They were of course members of the
> Shinsengumi, but I've also run accross something called the
> Shinchogumi. It that the same thing? If not, what is it?
>
> Any help much appreciated,
>
> St. John Lord Merridewe
> Shinchogumi is not Shinsengumi. Shinchogumi was alsoderived from the
> Roshitai, just like the Shinsengumi, but the Shinsengumimembers
> stayed in Kyoto while the Shinchogumi ones retreated back toEdo.
>can
> I believe you have already got this book, but if not perhaps you
> give a look at "Samurai Sketches", by Romulus Hillsborough. Itis a
> bit novelized, but still a very interesting depiction (and very wellKondo and
> researched) of some Shinsengumi members, including Isami
> Kamo Serizawa.researching
>
> Hope that helped...
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm new. Hope I'm in the right place to ask this. I'm
> > key figures of the Shinsengumi, particularly Isami Kondo and
> > Kamo Serizawa. They were of course members of the
> > Shinsengumi, but I've also run accross something called the
> > Shinchogumi. It that the same thing? If not, what is it?
> >
> > Any help much appreciated,
> >
> > St. John Lord Merridewe
> Thanks for this. OK then I have one more question: What is thewell
> Roshitai?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> St. John Lord Merridewe
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "serizawakamo" <
> serizawakamo@y...> wrote:
> > Shinchogumi is not Shinsengumi. Shinchogumi was also
> derived from the
> > Roshitai, just like the Shinsengumi, but the Shinsengumi
> members
> > stayed in Kyoto while the Shinchogumi ones retreated back to
> Edo.
> >
> > I believe you have already got this book, but if not perhaps you
> can
> > give a look at "Samurai Sketches", by Romulus Hillsborough. It
> is a
> > bit novelized, but still a very interesting depiction (and very
> > researched) of some Shinsengumi members, including Isami
> Kondo and
> > Kamo Serizawa.
> >
> > Hope that helped...
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm new. Hope I'm in the right place to ask this. I'm
> researching
> > > key figures of the Shinsengumi, particularly Isami Kondo and
> > > Kamo Serizawa. They were of course members of the
> > > Shinsengumi, but I've also run accross something called the
> > > Shinchogumi. It that the same thing? If not, what is it?
> > >
> > > Any help much appreciated,
> > >
> > > St. John Lord Merridewe
> After the arrival of Commodore Perry, Japan was thrown into chaosblackships.
> and fear. Many samurais, especially those of lower ranks, began to
> doubt the power of the Shogunate in defending the country against
> foreign powers, especially when they had seen the armed
> The slogan "Sonno-Joi" (Rever the emperor, dispel the barbarians)those
> was winning more and more support, such that samurais desert their
> hans to come to Kyoto to join the revolutionary movements. (In
> days deserting your han can be one of the most condemned sins -once
> you desert, you can never return to it, on pain of death.)not
>
> Such roshis (masterless samurais, but not ronins and definitely
> rurounis) increased in Kyoto, causing more and more disturbancesat
> the capital. In those early days of unsatisfied feelings, most ofschools
> the roshis still did not have a clear idea of what movement or who
> they should follow. All they knew was that they were impatient and
> eager to do something to defend Japan. There were myriads of
> of thought - Sonno-joi, open up the country to learn from thegaijin
> and in turn attact them using the same technologies, support theIt's
> Bakufu - as Watsuki once remarked, it was an era where 100 people
> may hold 100 different arguments and you can't say who's wrong.
> one factor which makes this era as tumultuous and interesting asit
> is. The Bakufu decided that it would be to their advantage if they
> took such roshis without any stand yet into their service, rather
> than letting them roam about the capital. Hence, Roshi-tais (bands
> of wave samurais) were formed and roshis enlisted under respective
> Bakufu samurais, where the "entry requirements" were one's sword
> skills (kenjutsu matches, something like an exam, were held.) This
> happened in 1863 or 3rd Year of Bunkyuu, one year after Kaoru's
> birth.
>
> *note direct from a website
> After the arrival of Commodore Perry, Japan was thrown into chaosthose
> and fear. Many samurais, especially those of lower ranks, began to
> doubt the power of the Shogunate in defending the country against
> foreign powers, especially when they had seen the armed blackships.
> The slogan "Sonno-Joi" (Rever the emperor, dispel the barbarians)
> was winning more and more support, such that samurais desert their
> hans to come to Kyoto to join the revolutionary movements. (In
> days deserting your han can be one of the most condemned sins -once
> you desert, you can never return to it, on pain of death.)schools
>
> Such roshis (masterless samurais, but not ronins and definitely not
> rurounis) increased in Kyoto, causing more and more disturbances at
> the capital. In those early days of unsatisfied feelings, most of
> the roshis still did not have a clear idea of what movement or who
> they should follow. All they knew was that they were impatient and
> eager to do something to defend Japan. There were myriads of
> of thought - Sonno-joi, open up the country to learn from thegaijin
> and in turn attact them using the same technologies, support theIt's
> Bakufu - as Watsuki once remarked, it was an era where 100 people
> may hold 100 different arguments and you can't say who's wrong.
> one factor which makes this era as tumultuous and interesting as ityou
> is. The Bakufu decided that it would be to their advantage if they
> took such roshis without any stand yet into their service, rather
> than letting them roam about the capital. Hence, Roshi-tais (bands
> of wave samurais) were formed and roshis enlisted under respective
> Bakufu samurais, where the "entry requirements" were one's sword
> skills (kenjutsu matches, something like an exam, were held.) This
> happened in 1863 or 3rd Year of Bunkyuu, one year after Kaoru's
> birth.
>
> *note direct from a website
>
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "merridewe"
> wrote:
> > Thanks for this. OK then I have one more question: What is the
> > Roshitai?
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > St. John Lord Merridewe
> >
> > --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "serizawakamo" <
> > serizawakamo@y...> wrote:
> > > Shinchogumi is not Shinsengumi. Shinchogumi was also
> > derived from the
> > > Roshitai, just like the Shinsengumi, but the Shinsengumi
> > members
> > > stayed in Kyoto while the Shinchogumi ones retreated back to
> > Edo.
> > >
> > > I believe you have already got this book, but if not perhaps
> > can
> > > give a look at "Samurai Sketches", by Romulus Hillsborough. It
> > is a
> > > bit novelized, but still a very interesting depiction (and very
> well
> > > researched) of some Shinsengumi members, including Isami
> > Kondo and
> > > Kamo Serizawa.
> > >
> > > Hope that helped...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I'm new. Hope I'm in the right place to ask this. I'm
> > researching
> > > > key figures of the Shinsengumi, particularly Isami Kondo and
> > > > Kamo Serizawa. They were of course members of the
> > > > Shinsengumi, but I've also run accross something called the
> > > > Shinchogumi. It that the same thing? If not, what is it?
> > > >
> > > > Any help much appreciated,
> > > >
> > > > St. John Lord Merridewe
> Thanks for this. OK then I have one more question: What is thewell
> Roshitai?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> St. John Lord Merridewe
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "serizawakamo" <
> serizawakamo@y...> wrote:
> > Shinchogumi is not Shinsengumi. Shinchogumi was also
> derived from the
> > Roshitai, just like the Shinsengumi, but the Shinsengumi
> members
> > stayed in Kyoto while the Shinchogumi ones retreated back to
> Edo.
> >
> > I believe you have already got this book, but if not perhaps you
> can
> > give a look at "Samurai Sketches", by Romulus Hillsborough. It
> is a
> > bit novelized, but still a very interesting depiction (and very
> > researched) of some Shinsengumi members, including Isami
> Kondo and
> > Kamo Serizawa.
> >
> > Hope that helped...
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm new. Hope I'm in the right place to ask this. I'm
> researching
> > > key figures of the Shinsengumi, particularly Isami Kondo and
> > > Kamo Serizawa. They were of course members of the
> > > Shinsengumi, but I've also run accross something called the
> > > Shinchogumi. It that the same thing? If not, what is it?
> > >
> > > Any help much appreciated,
> > >
> > > St. John Lord Merridewe
> NOTE:
> Just realized that "This happened in 1863 or 3rd Year of Bunkyuu,
> one year after Kaoru's birth." was put in with the post at the end.
> Please ignore, that last sentence was just refering to an
> anime/manga called "Rurouni Kenshin" and was just comparing
> historical background with that anime/manga.
>
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Masamori Masami"
>wrote:
> > After the arrival of Commodore Perry, Japan was thrown into chaos
> > and fear. Many samurais, especially those of lower ranks, began to
> > doubt the power of the Shogunate in defending the country against
> > foreign powers, especially when they had seen the armed
> blackships.
> > The slogan "Sonno-Joi" (Rever the emperor, dispel the barbarians)
> > was winning more and more support, such that samurais desert their
> > hans to come to Kyoto to join the revolutionary movements. (In
> those
> > days deserting your han can be one of the most condemned sins -
> once
> > you desert, you can never return to it, on pain of death.)
> >
> > Such roshis (masterless samurais, but not ronins and definitely
> not
> > rurounis) increased in Kyoto, causing more and more disturbances
> at
> > the capital. In those early days of unsatisfied feelings, most of
> > the roshis still did not have a clear idea of what movement or who
> > they should follow. All they knew was that they were impatient and
> > eager to do something to defend Japan. There were myriads of
> schools
> > of thought - Sonno-joi, open up the country to learn from the
> gaijin
> > and in turn attact them using the same technologies, support the
> > Bakufu - as Watsuki once remarked, it was an era where 100 people
> > may hold 100 different arguments and you can't say who's wrong.
> It's
> > one factor which makes this era as tumultuous and interesting as
> it
> > is. The Bakufu decided that it would be to their advantage if they
> > took such roshis without any stand yet into their service, rather
> > than letting them roam about the capital. Hence, Roshi-tais (bands
> > of wave samurais) were formed and roshis enlisted under respective
> > Bakufu samurais, where the "entry requirements" were one's sword
> > skills (kenjutsu matches, something like an exam, were held.) This
> > happened in 1863 or 3rd Year of Bunkyuu, one year after Kaoru's
> > birth.
> >
> > *note direct from a website