Popular Samurai History

First, an introduction:
Hello! I am new (obviously). My given name is Stephanie, but I've been called (and answered to) all sorts of variations, foreignisations, and meaning-translations so you can pretty much call me whatever you like. My interest has recently been snared by Japanese history, esp the change from Tokugawa to Meiji and the samurai's position in all of that mess. I'll freely admit it was not something academic that caught my attention, but anime (Rurouni Kenshin;both the TV series and the OVA for those familiar). I'm a fencer, and have studied some forms of Asian martial arts, but never Kendo (it will be the next )--so that is where I stand in relation to this subject. I look foreward to learning more through this group. Oh, and linguistically, I'm illiterate as far as original sources--or even contemporary ones, for that matter--on this topic are concerned, since I have (essentially) no Japanese.

Next, some citation:
"Komori Genjiro, he changed his name into Kawakami Gensai(Hitokiri-Gensai). He changed his name further into Takada Genbe..."
Source.
"The original model [for Himura Kenshin] was supposed to be the Hitokiri Kawakami Gensai, but now they�re completely different . . . (oh well.) Kawakami Gensai, one of the four great Hitokiris of the Bakumatsu, could be mistaken for a girl at first glance, but his nature was the complete opposite of his appearance: he was a cold, calculating man said to be the most terrible of the four. "
Source.

Following, the enquiries:
I would like to know more about these four Hitokiri. Who were the other three? Who contracted them, i.e. where did their loyalties lie? The description of Gensai-dono on the first page I've cited makes no mention of his status during the Bakumatsu; where can I learn more about him, in particular. Also, the two discriptions seem to be at great odds--one is ruthless and cold, one is warm and compassionate. Is there an explanation?

Another question, unrelated to the last:
Where could I find out what kind of training a samurai had to have? Did they have to be trained from young ages, or were there any famous samurai who decided to become one later on? I know there was a strict four-part caste system during the Edo/Tokugawa dynasty and that one of those classes was the samurai, or warrior class. And, purportedly kendo lost its flare and popularity immediately after the Meiji Restoration; how true is that? Certainly it had to have a large enough group of followers that it survived to today...

I know these are really basic questions, child's play to most of those who've been on the list (I'm sure). Please be patient while I learn, this is new to me.

Thnx, in advance.


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Keep the realm of my pleasure prosperous,
Avert from me the calamity of chastity,
And keep far from me the doom of repentance.
~'Ubayd-i Zaakaanii
http://www.livejournal.com/~sjcarpediem


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>There are two very good books in English on the bakumatsu period, both of which explain some of the complexities of late Edo society.

Choshu in the Meiji Restoration by Albert Craig (Harvard UP 1961 and Lexington Books 2000)

Sakamoto Ryoma and the Meiji Restoration by Marius Jansen Columbia UP 1994.

Both of these books were written in late fifties and so have been overtaken by other studies in Japanese, but they give an excellent overview and are very insightful into the personalities of the Meiji shishi (heroes). I've only seen one episode of Rurouni Kenshin, and I've got no idea how accurate it is historically, but the background all seemed pretty accurate to me, though I am not an expert, and certainly the Choshu samurai that I've read more about (Takasugi Shinsaku - he who dies of tb before the Restoration happens, - Inoue Kaoru, Kido Koin and Ito Hirobumi,) did lead dramatic and colourful lives. And of course especially Sakamoto Ryoma.

samurai is a description of a class. At the end of the bakumatsu period the samurai class made up 10 percent of the population. Most of them were bureaucrats and officials and were disliked if not hated by everyone else. They were also usually impoverished. The Tokugawa period was brought to an end by famine and poverty as much as by foreign pressure. The scene in Kyoto was chaotic as young underemployed samaurai from different han got together to ferment new ideas. (They also travelled to Edo to attend sword training schools, and sometimes to learn foreign languages.) When the bakufu regime clamped down on them as during the Ansei purges under Ii Naosuke opposition was quelled quite quickly, but the baku/han stucture of government meant the shogun was too weak to continue this policy after Ii's assassination.

Can't possibly write more now about this period but it is one of the most fascinating in Japanese history. You'll enjoy researching it.

Gillian

Stephanie asked:

Another question, unrelated to the last:
Where could I find out what kind of training a samurai had to have? Did they have to be trained from young ages, or were there any famous samurai who decided to become one later on? I know there was a strict four-part caste system during the Edo/Tokugawa dynasty and that one of those classes was the samurai, or warrior class. And, purportedly kendo lost its flare and popularity immediately after the Meiji Restoration; how true is that? Certainly it had to have a large enough group of followers that it survived to today...

Hi Stephanie,

The concept of training a samurai to a predefined level (such as an NVQ in swordsmanship) would be rather alien to this warrior class. The level of training was more of a personal matter and was dependant on the teacher or the Daimyo in whose fife he served. For the early samurai, with some personal wealth, the art of the bow and its perfection were the ultimate aim {mounted archery [yabusame] is still practised to a high level of skill - and a pleasure to watch}. Later samurai perfected their skill with the sword and lance but the leveller came with powder and shot. There was very little skill required to fire the early firearms - the skill was to make sure you didn't kill yourself! With the massed armies and formations training would have been in the reaction to orders and mobility.

There is an excellent book which looks at the martial arts of feudal japan and illustrates the complexity and wealth of fighting skills available and is well worth a read = "Secrets of the Samurai"; Ratti & Westbrook, published by Tuttle 1973 (and after). For a little light reading!! read "Musashi"; Yoshikawa (trans. by Terry), published by Harper&Row - this is the story {faction}of the most famous japanese swordsman to date, a son of a samurai whose aquired skills helped him survive from Sekigahara through Shimabara, a period of almost 40 years.

That should be enough to get you moving on that little topic!!

Best wishes

Rod Johnson






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ý I'll freely admit it was not something academic that caught my
attention, but anime (Rurouni Kenshin;both the TV series and the OVA
for those familiar).

Stephanie, welcome, anything that brings you here is a good thing
still I would second the recommendations for reading which you have
already received and also suggest "The Making of Modern Japan" by
Jansen.
Information about Bakumatsu era swordsmen is a little harder
to find in English, although there is a good deal in Japanese. It
took me a while to dig some of this up so apologies to the list for
the gapÅc


"Komori Genjiro, he changed his name into Kawakami
Gensai(Hitokiri-Gensai). He changed his name further into Takada
Genbe..."

I know three "Hitokiri";Ý Hitokiri Hanzo (Nakamura Hanjiro)Ý ,
Hitokiri Izo, and another Hitokiri Hanzo. The first was Kirino
Toshiaki of Satsuma, who changed his name, to that of the Ågmain
houseÅh (Kirino)when he became an officer in the new Army of Satsuma.
He got the nickname as a young hot head in Kyoto where he is said to
have cut down a man in a crowded street in broad daylight. The second
was Okada Izo of Tosa, who killed several men in Kochi (maybe more in
Kyoto)who were opposed to the initiatives of the Tosa loyalist party
and Takechi Zuizan. A fictionalized version of his life can be seen
in the film ÅgHitokiriÅh starring Katsu Shin. The third seems to have
been lost in the shadow of these other two, I find only brief mention
of him.
Kawakami Gensai, I know as the man who killed Sakuma Shozan,
but didnÅft know much else until I looked into him. He was indeed
called ÅgHitokiri GensaiÅh, though Sakuma is the only man we know for
sure that he killed.
He was one of the major domo of the Hosokawa mansion in Edo,
when four men fresh from the Sakurada mon-gai presented themselves at
the door. The house was in a panic no one seemed to know what to do.
Gensai however, took charge of the situation as soon as he was
informed, calling for the doctor and seeing to their baths and
clothing. Providing them with tea and every comfort, he expressed his
admiration even as he notified the authorities as was his duty.
A supporter of the Emperor his whole life he survived the
Restoration, was a member of the Jinpuren andÝ rebelled against the
new government in the Mei-yon jiken. Because he was something of a
chatty cathy his fellow prisoners described him as ÅgfeminineÅh, it
was said that his reputation did not match his appearance. However he
was quick to temper, he killed Sakuma based only on rumour, and
resolute in his beliefs. The authorities knowing him to be a man of
honor and education offered to pardon him if he would work with them
but he refused. Kido himself said that if he were released he would
cause trouble, so he was executed on his order, he was 38.

Ý
ÝAnd, purportedly kendo lost its flare and popularity immediately
after the Meiji Restoration; how true is that?

The short answer is itÅfs true. With the triumph of western tactics
and weapons over the Bakufu, the banning of swords as symbol of
rank,and the suppression of the Satsuma Rebellion. The Japanese sword
and its related arts seemed doomed to extinction. There are stories
of sword teachers who simply walked off into the mountains never to
be seen again.
A whole lifestyle and whole industries seemed to be vanishing
in the face of a crazed adoption of everything western. English was
proposed as the official language, school girls had to wear the
fashions popular in the capitols of Europe, Men cut off their
topknots and many Buddhist temples, castles and other institutions
were destroyed. It was a sad state of affairs.
Fukuzawa Yukichi who had once been the great reformer, now
took the advice of European friends and advocated the preservation of
traditional dress and custom. Much of the damage had already been
done though. Japan seems to have gone thru this phase of accepting
and then rejecting western influence several times after the
Restoration. Kano Jigoro and others were part of the Japanese effort
to preserve and spread the best of traditional Japanese culture. Thus
we saw the birth of ÅgModernÅh kendo after many of the teachers of
the late Edo period had ceased to be.
-t


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For those of you interested in all art related to the Samurai, have a
look at this

http://www.artsofthesamurai.com

There is also a new auction platform being set up by the looks of
things.

- Matt


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, I watch the anime Runouni Kenshin on TV and I've
also read the biography of Sakamoto Ryoma. Stephanie,
I welcome you, there's another book called A History
of Japan, the book leads up to the modern times.
Andie Joy Smith

--- tom helm <junkmail@...> wrote:

> � I'll freely admit it was not something academic
> that caught my
> attention, but anime (Rurouni Kenshin;both the TV
> series and the OVA
> for those familiar).
>
> Stephanie, welcome, anything that brings you here is
> a good thing
> still I would second the recommendations for reading
> which you have
> already received and also suggest "The Making of
> Modern Japan" by
> Jansen.
> Information about Bakumatsu era swordsmen is a
> little harder
> to find in English, although there is a good deal in
> Japanese. It
> took me a while to dig some of this up so apologies
> to the list for
> the gap�c
>
>
> "Komori Genjiro, he changed his name into Kawakami
> Gensai(Hitokiri-Gensai). He changed his name further
> into Takada
> Genbe..."
>
> I know three "Hitokiri";� Hitokiri Hanzo (Nakamura
> Hanjiro)� ,
> Hitokiri Izo, and another Hitokiri Hanzo. The first
> was Kirino
> Toshiaki of Satsuma, who changed his name, to that
> of the �gmain
> house�h (Kirino)when he became an officer in the new
> Army of Satsuma.
> He got the nickname as a young hot head in Kyoto
> where he is said to
> have cut down a man in a crowded street in broad
> daylight. The second
> was Okada Izo of Tosa, who killed several men in
> Kochi (maybe more in
> Kyoto)who were opposed to the initiatives of the
> Tosa loyalist party
> and Takechi Zuizan. A fictionalized version of his
> life can be seen
> in the film �gHitokiri�h starring Katsu Shin. The
> third seems to have
> been lost in the shadow of these other two, I find
> only brief mention
> of him.
> Kawakami Gensai, I know as the man who killed
> Sakuma Shozan,
> but didn�ft know much else until I looked into him.
> He was indeed
> called �gHitokiri Gensai�h, though Sakuma is the
> only man we know for
> sure that he killed.
> He was one of the major domo of the Hosokawa
> mansion in Edo,
> when four men fresh from the Sakurada mon-gai
> presented themselves at
> the door. The house was in a panic no one seemed to
> know what to do.
> Gensai however, took charge of the situation as soon
> as he was
> informed, calling for the doctor and seeing to their
> baths and
> clothing. Providing them with tea and every comfort,
> he expressed his
> admiration even as he notified the authorities as
> was his duty.
> A supporter of the Emperor his whole life he
> survived the
> Restoration, was a member of the Jinpuren and�
> rebelled against the
> new government in the Mei-yon jiken. Because he was
> something of a
> chatty cathy his fellow prisoners described him as
> �gfeminine�h, it
> was said that his reputation did not match his
> appearance. However he
> was quick to temper, he killed Sakuma based only on
> rumour, and
> resolute in his beliefs. The authorities knowing him
> to be a man of
> honor and education offered to pardon him if he
> would work with them
> but he refused. Kido himself said that if he were
> released he would
> cause trouble, so he was executed on his order, he
> was 38.
>
> �
> �And, purportedly kendo lost its flare and
> popularity immediately
> after the Meiji Restoration; how true is that?
>
> The short answer is it�fs true. With the triumph of
> western tactics
> and weapons over the Bakufu, the banning of swords
> as symbol of
> rank,and the suppression of the Satsuma Rebellion.
> The Japanese sword
> and its related arts seemed doomed to extinction.
> There are stories
> of sword teachers who simply walked off into the
> mountains never to
> be seen again.
> A whole lifestyle and whole industries seemed to be
> vanishing
> in the face of a crazed adoption of everything
> western. English was
> proposed as the official language, school girls had
> to wear the
> fashions popular in the capitols of Europe, Men cut
> off their
> topknots and many Buddhist temples, castles and
> other institutions
> were destroyed. It was a sad state of affairs.
> Fukuzawa Yukichi who had once been the great
> reformer, now
> took the advice of European friends and advocated
> the preservation of
> traditional dress and custom. Much of the damage had
> already been
> done though. Japan seems to have gone thru this
> phase of accepting
> and then rejecting western influence several times
> after the
> Restoration. Kano Jigoro and others were part of the
> Japanese effort
> to preserve and spread the best of traditional
> Japanese culture. Thus
> we saw the birth of �gModern�h kendo after many of
> the teachers of
> the late Edo period had ceased to be.
> -t
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

__________________________________
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--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, andrea Smith
wrote:

> Yeah, I watch the anime Runouni Kenshin on TV and I've
> also read the biography of Sakamoto Ryoma. Stephanie,
> I welcome you, there's another book called A History
> of Japan, the book leads up to the modern times.
> Andie Joy Smith

Do you know the author, there are a lot of books called _A History of
Japan_? Thnx, in advance (and thnx to everyone else who's written
and recommended books/offered clarification).

> Stephanie, welcome, anything that brings you here is a good thing
> still I would second the recommendations for reading which you have
> already received and also suggest "The Making of Modern Japan" by
> Jansen.
> Information about Bakumatsu era swordsmen is a little harder
> to find in English, although there is a good deal in Japanese. It
> took me a while to dig some of this up so apologies to the list for
> the gapÅc

There's also the book "Samurai Sketches", by Romulus Hillsborough
(sp?), which deals with many stories involving the swordsmen of the
Bakumatsu era.

> "Komori Genjiro, he changed his name into Kawakami
> Gensai(Hitokiri-Gensai). He changed his name further into Takada
> Genbe..."
>
> I know three "Hitokiri";Ý Hitokiri Hanzo (Nakamura Hanjiro)Ý ,
> Hitokiri Izo, and another Hitokiri Hanzo.

The ones I know, excluding Gensai, are: Hitokiri Hanjiro (Jigen
style), Hitokiri Izo (Kyoshin Meichi style) and Hitokiri Shinbe
(Tanaka Shinbe, forgot what his style was). Hitokiri Shinbe was the
one who supposedly killed Anenokoji Kintomo, if I'm not mistaken.

> Ý
> ÝAnd, purportedly kendo lost its flare and popularity immediately
> after the Meiji Restoration; how true is that?
>
> The short answer is itÅfs true. With the triumph of western tactics
> and weapons over the Bakufu, the banning of swords as symbol of
> rank,and the suppression of the Satsuma Rebellion.

As far as I know, the suppression of the Satsuma Rebellion wasn't one
of the factors that caused the decadence of kendo/kenjutsu. Much on
the contrary, from the sources I've seen, it helped the Japanese
fencing to stay alive in the army/police, though I am unsure of how
helpful it was. The "Bunmei Kaika" and the "Haitorei" were, for me,
the most important factors.

> Fukuzawa Yukichi who had once been the great reformer, now
> took the advice of European friends and advocated the preservation

of

> traditional dress and custom. Much of the damage had already been
> done though. Japan seems to have gone thru this phase of accepting
> and then rejecting western influence several times after the
> Restoration. Kano Jigoro and others were part of the Japanese

effort

> to preserve and spread the best of traditional Japanese culture.

This is true enough. Only after the Sino-Japanese and Russian-
Japanese wars that the Japanese "rediscovered" the Japanese martial
arts, especially fencing. Until then, some people tried to keep kendo
alive. The "Gekiken Kogyo", organized by the Jiki Shinkage-ryu
headmaster, Sakakibara Kenkichi, is the most representative movement
to make Japanese fencing more well known among the Japanese
themselves. Not to mention the reappearance of "kenbu" (sword
dancing), helped by people like Hibino Raifu (Shinto-ryu).

But the Japanese fencing caught the public's eye in the beginning of
the 20th century, thanks to the "Tenranjiai", the "tournament" held
in the Imperial Palace (actually, in a dojo next to the palace
itself).

> Thus
> we saw the birth of ÅgModernÅh kendo after many of the teachers of
> the late Edo period had ceased to be.

Though modern kendo as we know now was only created in the late
50s/60s, if I'm not mistaken, due to WWII. The pre-WWII kendo is
similar, but a bit different, since it allowed things
like "deashibarai" and "kumiuchi". But, by then, many of the teachers
of the late Edo period had ceased to be indeed. And many styles were
lost as well, including famous styles like Kyoshin Meichi and
Mizoguchi-ha Itto.


Serizawa Kamo

Hey there.
It's me again. Just a bit off-topic, but it does deal with history and
Japan. Could anybody point me to books in english about the history of sumo
wrestling? Thanx. 8-) As always, it's been a pleasure. 8-)

Later
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The revised edition is by R.H.P. Mason and J.G Caiger
and the other A History of Japan book is written by
Kenneth G. Henshall, I hope I have been some help to
you there, Stephanie. E-mail me if you have any
questions.
Andie Joy Smith

--- Stephanie <sjcarpediem@...> wrote:

> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, andrea Smith
> wrote:
> > Yeah, I watch the anime Runouni Kenshin on TV and
> I've
> > also read the biography of Sakamoto Ryoma.
> Stephanie,
> > I welcome you, there's another book called A
> History
> > of Japan, the book leads up to the modern times.
> > Andie Joy Smith
>
> Do you know the author, there are a lot of books
> called _A History of
> Japan_? Thnx, in advance (and thnx to everyone else
> who's written
> and recommended books/offered clarification).
>
>

__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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Don't know of any books, but here is a good Sumo site:
http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/index.php
And this is one of the best in English:
http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/index.php

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Eponymous13@a... wrote:
> Hey there.
> It's me again. Just a bit off-topic, but it does deal with
history and
> Japan. Could anybody point me to books in english about the
history of sumo
> wrestling? Thanx. 8-) As always, it's been a pleasure. 8-)
>
> Later
> Tim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

I have this book

The giants of sumo
Angela Patmore
isbn 0-356-18120-0
published in the uK 1990

it has history info on the throws and details on many
of the modern greats

paul


--- Kitsuno <samurai-listowner@...>
wrote:

---------------------------------
Don't know of any books, but here is a good Sumo site:
http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/index.php
And this is one of the best in English:
http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/index.php


--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com,
Eponymous13@a... wrote:

> Hey there.
> It's me again. Just a bit off-topic, but it does

deal with
history and

> Japan. Could anybody point me to books in english

about the
history of sumo

> wrestling? Thanx. 8-) As always, it's been a

pleasure. 8-)

>
> Later
> Tim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]


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Oops, posted the same site twice. I'll find the other one and post
it.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Kitsuno" listowner@s...> wrote:

> Don't know of any books, but here is a good Sumo site:
> http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/index.php
> And this is one of the best in English:
> http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/index.php
>
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Eponymous13@a... wrote:
> > Hey there.
> > It's me again. Just a bit off-topic, but it does deal with
> history and
> > Japan. Could anybody point me to books in english about the
> history of sumo
> > wrestling? Thanx. 8-) As always, it's been a pleasure. 8-)
> >
> > Later
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is the other Sumo link: http://www.sumotalk.com/
Great site.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Kitsuno" listowner@s...> wrote:

> Oops, posted the same site twice. I'll find the other one and

post

> it.
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Kitsuno" > listowner@s...> wrote:
> > Don't know of any books, but here is a good Sumo site:
> > http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/index.php
> > And this is one of the best in English:
> > http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/index.php
> >
> >
> > --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Eponymous13@a... wrote:
> > > Hey there.
> > > It's me again. Just a bit off-topic, but it does deal with
> > history and
> > > Japan. Could anybody point me to books in english about the
> > history of sumo
> > > wrestling? Thanx. 8-) As always, it's been a pleasure. 8-)
> > >
> > > Later
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanx. Will check it out. As for the sumo.or.jp site, it's the Nihon Sumo
Kyokai official site in English -- I know, as I go to it often already. 8-)
Great site. Thanx every1 else for your help too, past present and future,
sumo, samurai and otherwise. 8-)

Later.
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]