NINJA, fantasy or reality?

Can anyone tell me, preferably based of evidence, whether Ninja
really existed? There is no doubt that many nations had assassins and
hired killers and Japan I'm sure is no exception. But I have read
that Ninja, as such, are a myth and are the subject of storytellers
and some fanciful notion that there was a dojo specifically for the
purpose of training these super human elite. We've read the stories
and seen the films, so over to you all, if they did exist where is
the evidence?

KEYOKE.

Hey there.
Me again again. 8-) The ninja, if all I've heard from everyone in this
group and everything I've read is correct and I believe it is, were real. The
assassin part, though, is more hollywood than anything. They were more into
espionage and were information gatherers rather than assassins, although they
were more than likely used for that purpose if needed. (Reference: Fuma Kotaro
-- b. Kazama Kotaro -- led a ninja band for the Hojo clan in the Sengoku
period. The band, if memory serves, were involved in a war, but not necessarily as
spies as much as guerillas. Again if memory serves, he was executed in 1603
as a common criminal.) Hope this helps! 8-)

Later
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

Did Ninja exist - yes and no

First you have to completely forget Hollywood, they
havent even come close to portraying the ninja yet. In
fact many Japanese movies dont even portray them
properly yet

The term ninja is new - in the past they were called
shinbo - suppa - kussa - iga no mono - koga no mono,
the list is endless.

Every school/family of ninjutsu was different. some
specialised in warfare tactics sop they basically
ceased to exist once wars declined, some maybe even
continued right up to the meiji period to today. Today
the katori Shinto ryu has ninjutsu in its training
curriculum. One school of ninjutsu, even used young
girls to obtain pillow secrets which there then passed
on.

Some Ninja schools did carryout the clandestine
activities that you read about, but little is know of
these types of ninja as there activities are recorded.
Three documents written by ninja exist today.
bansenshukai, ninpiden, Shoninki. however all were
written some years into the beginning days of the edo
period.

The last two know recorded activities of ninja was at
the Shimabara rebellion where they failed (due to not
having the local accent and old age)and some were even
injured, and the last I know of is one ninja climbed
about a dutch ship in the 1800's and stole a menu. if
he could read dutch he would not have taken the menu.

Hope this helps

paul




--- keyoke_ot_acoma <gandalf_39a@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Can anyone tell me, preferably based of evidence,
whether Ninja
really existed? There is no doubt that many nations
had assassins and
hired killers and Japan I'm sure is no exception. But
I have read
that Ninja, as such, are a myth and are the subject of
storytellers
and some fanciful notion that there was a dojo
specifically for the
purpose of training these super human elite. We've
read the stories
and seen the films, so over to you all, if they did
exist where is
the evidence?

KEYOKE.


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Thank you Paul that was helpful. Any further reading anyone can
suggest, bear in mind I don't speak Japanese, thought its on the
list "to do" (ha!), that would be useful.

Hi

maybe you should read this by Don Roley

http://www.shinden.pp.fi/kogaryuhistory.html

paul




--- keyoke_ot_acoma <gandalf_39a@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Thank you Paul that was helpful. Any further reading
anyone can
suggest, bear in mind I don't speak Japanese, thought
its on the
list "to do" (ha!), that would be useful.



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Hi There

I can recommend Stephen Turnbull's "Ninja" - ISBN 1 85314 109 7. It is an excellent and comprehensive work, although I am sure there will be some who disagree!! Currently selling at a reasonable £7.95 on Amazon.....

Rod Johnson

Synopsis on Amazon site
This is a true and revealing account of the Ninja, the Japanese clandestine warrior cult of assassins and spies that has acquired a legendary status among martial arts enthusiasts and military historians. From material previously unpublished in the West, Stephen Turnbull recounts the history, battles, science, mysticism and even the modern aspects of the Ninja. Many of the sources for this book are his own translations from Japanese archives. Myths about the Ninja are exploded but the truth emerges here as far stronger than any fiction, making this work destined to become the standard work.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

Turnbulls book is very good except he has written only
about samurai doing ninja things.

I feel that if you write a book about ninja you should
at least include them.

However, it is maybe one fo the best books on the
subject in the english language and a great lace to
start learning about the ninja. I recommend it

Paul

--- "shogun.uk" <shogun.uk@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Hi There

I can recommend Stephen Turnbull's "Ninja" - ISBN 1
85314 109 7. It is an excellent and comprehensive
work, although I am sure there will be some who
disagree!! Currently selling at a reasonable �7.95
on Amazon.....

Rod Johnson

Synopsis on Amazon site
This is a true and revealing account of the Ninja, the
Japanese clandestine warrior cult of assassins and
spies that has acquired a legendary status among
martial arts enthusiasts and military historians. From
material previously unpublished in the West, Stephen
Turnbull recounts the history, battles, science,
mysticism and even the modern aspects of the Ninja.
Many of the sources for this book are his own
translations from Japanese archives. Myths about the
Ninja are exploded but the truth emerges here as far
stronger than any fiction, making this work destined
to become the standard work.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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