Knights as more honorable

I personaly disagree that Knights were more honorable. I am not
saying they were less honorable. But the ideal of going off and
killing all the bad muslim people (just a statement of the feeling of
the time of the knights, I have nothing against muslims as a group)
for the glory of god and holy mother church or you will burn in hell
for all eternity does not seem any more honorable. Just my 2 cents.

Hey there.
It may just be my take, and I may be wrong, but it's really a matter of
perspective. From the point of the Crusaders and those sending them -- at
least the ones with the power -- they were definitely honourable. However,
it must not go unsaid that there were probably people with cooler heads that
definitely disagreed with them, which, in 20-20 retrospect, would have been a
Good Thing. (Genocide is ALWAYS a Bad Thing anyway, but that goes without
saying.) If news of such atrocities had reached Japan, the Crusades and
Crusaders, rightly, probably would have been seen as barbaric and inhuman.
Conversely, the warriors in Japan -- both the Samurai and the peasant
soldiers used by generals such as ODA Nobunaga -- were acting in ways that
THEY deemed honourable, and in the "more enlightened" west, were seen, if my
memoury serves me correctly, as "heathen savages."
Anyway, that's my take.

Later,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Eponymous13@... wrote:

> Hey there.
> It may just be my take, and I may be wrong, but
> it's really a matter of
> perspective. From the point of the Crusaders and
> those sending them -- at
> least the ones with the power -- they were
> definitely honourable. However,
> it must not go unsaid that there were probably
> people with cooler heads that
> definitely disagreed with them, which, in 20-20
> retrospect, would have been a
> Good Thing. (Genocide is ALWAYS a Bad Thing anyway,
> but that goes without
> saying.) If news of such atrocities had reached
> Japan, the Crusades and
> Crusaders, rightly, probably would have been seen as
> barbaric and inhuman.
> Conversely, the warriors in Japan -- both the
> Samurai and the peasant
> soldiers used by generals such as ODA Nobunaga --
> were acting in ways that
> THEY deemed honourable, and in the "more
> enlightened" west, were seen, if my
> memoury serves me correctly, as "heathen savages."
> Anyway, that's my take.
>
> Later,
> Tim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
> ni hao.

this is tim heaton,
i am curios does anyone know were i can get the book
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--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Scott "
wrote:

> I personaly disagree that Knights were more honorable. I am not
> saying they were less honorable. But the ideal of going off and
> killing all the bad muslim people (just a statement of the feeling

of

> the time of the knights, I have nothing against muslims as a group)
> for the glory of god and holy mother church or you will burn in

hell

> for all eternity does not seem any more honorable. Just my 2 cents.

There is a book comparing bushido with chivalry:
"A Comparison of Bushi-Do and Chivalry"
by Takeshi Takagi
translated by Tsuneyoshi Matsuno
This book was written in 1914, but the translation was published 1984
in Osaka: TM International Academy.

Regards,
Max

>From: "Scott <scottc_4@...>" <scottc_4@...>

>I personaly disagree that Knights were more honorable. I am not
>saying they were less honorable. But the ideal of going off and
>killing all the bad muslim people (just a statement of the feeling of
>the time of the knights, I have nothing against muslims as a group)
>for the glory of god and holy mother church or you will burn in hell
>for all eternity does not seem any more honorable. Just my 2 cents.

Although your point is correct regarding some of the misdirected efforts of
the Crusades, the general statement should not be applied to knights in
general.

In the end, knights and samurai had the same faults as anyone else, in spite
of their intentions simply because they were human and subject to all
influences that the rest of us are exposed to.

Honda



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Few warriors, be they European knights, samurai, or
anyone from anywhere else, have been honourable (as we
would see it). Chivalry was an ideal as much concerned
with courtly love and Christian devotion as with
conduct in warfare. Much of samurai-based literature
was similarly focussed, upon ideals. 'Heike
Monogatari' extolls the virtues of usurping Taira
warrios and the rather rougher Minamoto from the more
rural east, and as Yoritomo shows he was as cutthroat
(pragmatic?) as anyone else. The whole machinery of
the Kamakura bakufu/Hojo regency collapsed fifty years
after the second (attempted) Mongol invasion, largely
due to the fact the samurai who served were not
handsomely regarded, since it was a defensive
campaign. Rspect goes hand-in-hand with rewards.
M.Lorimer


--- Honda Kowabunga <hkowabunga@...> wrote:
---------------------------------

>From: "Scott <scottc_4@...>"

<scottc_4@...>

>I personaly disagree that Knights were more

honorable. I am not

>saying they were less honorable. But the ideal of

going off and

>killing all the bad muslim people (just a statement

of the feeling of

>the time of the knights, I have nothing against

muslims as a group)

>for the glory of god and holy mother church or you

will burn in hell

>for all eternity does not seem any more honorable.

Just my 2 cents.

Although your point is correct regarding some of the
misdirected efforts of
the Crusades, the general statement should not be
applied to knights in
general.

In the end, knights and samurai had the same faults as
anyone else, in spite
of their intentions simply because they were human and
subject to all
influences that the rest of us are exposed to.

Honda



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Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


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