#1300 [2002-12-10 02:21:21]
A ninja tale?
by
thomas5403
I have just reread "Sahashi Jingoro" by Mori Ogai, and a
surprising thought sprang to mind.
Without giving the story away, Jingoro, a samurai in the
service of the Tokugawa, flees after an incident in which
another samurai is killed. His brother requests an interview
with Ieyasu and explains the details, asking forgiveness and
that Jingoro might return.
Ieyasu observes that whilst it is understandable, it cannot be
allowed to pass. However, if Jingoro would perform a service
for Ieyasu, then he might consider it. The service is the
assassination of a Amari Shirasaburo, a Takeda vassal holding
Koyama castle in Totomi Province and a thorn in Ieyasu's side.
Ieyasu wanted possession of Koyama.
A tall order, but examining the clues I have shortlisted this:
Jingoro, we are told, was famous for his martial skills;
He was an accomplished flautist;
He was an excellent shot with the arquebus;
His opponent in an argument drew his sword, but Jingoro struck
and killed him with a single blow that left no visible mark
upon the body.
All in all - quite a talent.
Jingoro enters the service of Amari, woos him with his flute
playing, and when they are alone together, kills him.
Ninja? Or simply a samurai with useful shinobi skills?
Whatever, the garrison of Koyama did not surrender so the death of
Amari achieved nothing of significance.
Interestingly, Jingoro returned to Hamamatsu, but did not stay
long. When it was suggested he accompany an envoy to Kyoto,
Ieyasu declined. "I don't want him out of my sight. I have
heard that Amari loved him like a son," Ieyasu said, "yet the
cruel fellow killed him in his sleep."
This is a clue to the role and relationship of the samurai to
the ninja. I do believe that most samurai, if they possessed
the aptitude, developed shinobi-nin training and were entirely
capable of the exploits usually accredited to the ninja.
When Ieyasu odered his son to commit seppuku, Hattori Hanzo,
his celebrated ninja master, was sent to make sure the act was
carried out. At the last, even Hanzo could not bring himself to
act as kaishaku (second) knowing the man was innocent. Another
samurai took his place and struck off Nobuyasu's head.
Later, Ieyasu was heard to say, "even that devil Hanzo could
not bring himself to kill my son," at which point this samurai
decided life would be safer elsewhere.
The problem being, once they have proved themselves skilled in
the arts of deception, they themselves are never quite trusted
again, even by their masters.
Basically, I reckon most daimyo could find willing volunteers
from among their own ranks for suicide missions, without having
to resort to employing untrustworthy outsiders.
Ieyasu and others did employ ninja, but I reckon it was for the
more mundane and time-consuming operations of surveillance and
information gathering, the day-to-day donkeywork of military
intelligence, rather than the fantastic feats of fiction we
read about.
Thomas
[Next #1301]
#1301 [2002-12-10 15:34:02]
Re: [samuraihistory] A ninja tale?
by
Michael Finelli
excuse me but i don't mean to sound rude but could it be possible if you would only send me info on miyamoto musashi, oda nabnaga, toyotomi hideyoshi, and date masamune. Also info on weapons and techniques if possible. Thanks!!!!!!!
Mike
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#1303 [2002-12-11 06:42:35]
Re: A ninja tale?
by
lost90804
>
>
> From: "Michael Finelli" <setokaiba@...>
>
>excuse me but i don't mean to sound rude but could it be possible if you would only send me info on miyamoto musashi, oda nabnaga, toyotomi hideyoshi, and date masamune. Also info on weapons and techniques if possible. Thanks!!!!!!!
>
>
For Musashi, there are books galore, Saru (Hideyoshi) wasn't much of a
warrior, otherwise get the to a library... If you want to have the group
filtered, well good luck!
Jim Eckman
[Previous #1302] [Next #1304]
#1304 [2002-12-12 11:17:32]
Re: A ninja tale?
by
midorinotoradesu
Hey Thomas,
That sounds like a very interesting story. And your insights on the
samurai/ninja relationships are debatable but very good. I enjoyed
you input and will lokk for the book. Unfortunately, sometimes when
you post a message other people seem to forget that there are many of
us who may be interested in you opinion. Even if it doesn't serve
the specific purpose of an individual.
Brandon
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Davidson
" wrote:
> I have just reread "Sahashi Jingoro" by Mori Ogai, and a
> surprising thought sprang to mind.
>
> Without giving the story away, Jingoro, a samurai in the
> service of the Tokugawa, flees after an incident in which
> another samurai is killed. His brother requests an interview
> with Ieyasu and explains the details, asking forgiveness and
> that Jingoro might return.
>
> Ieyasu observes that whilst it is understandable, it cannot be
> allowed to pass. However, if Jingoro would perform a service
> for Ieyasu, then he might consider it. The service is the
> assassination of a Amari Shirasaburo, a Takeda vassal holding
> Koyama castle in Totomi Province and a thorn in Ieyasu's side.
> Ieyasu wanted possession of Koyama.
>
> A tall order, but examining the clues I have shortlisted this:
>
> Jingoro, we are told, was famous for his martial skills;
> He was an accomplished flautist;
> He was an excellent shot with the arquebus;
> His opponent in an argument drew his sword, but Jingoro struck
> and killed him with a single blow that left no visible mark
> upon the body.
>
> All in all - quite a talent.
>
> Jingoro enters the service of Amari, woos him with his flute
> playing, and when they are alone together, kills him.
>
> Ninja? Or simply a samurai with useful shinobi skills?
>
> Whatever, the garrison of Koyama did not surrender so the death of
> Amari achieved nothing of significance.
>
> Interestingly, Jingoro returned to Hamamatsu, but did not stay
> long. When it was suggested he accompany an envoy to Kyoto,
> Ieyasu declined. "I don't want him out of my sight. I have
> heard that Amari loved him like a son," Ieyasu said, "yet the
> cruel fellow killed him in his sleep."
>
> This is a clue to the role and relationship of the samurai to
> the ninja. I do believe that most samurai, if they possessed
> the aptitude, developed shinobi-nin training and were entirely
> capable of the exploits usually accredited to the ninja.
>
> When Ieyasu odered his son to commit seppuku, Hattori Hanzo,
> his celebrated ninja master, was sent to make sure the act was
> carried out. At the last, even Hanzo could not bring himself to
> act as kaishaku (second) knowing the man was innocent. Another
> samurai took his place and struck off Nobuyasu's head.
>
> Later, Ieyasu was heard to say, "even that devil Hanzo could
> not bring himself to kill my son," at which point this samurai
> decided life would be safer elsewhere.
>
> The problem being, once they have proved themselves skilled in
> the arts of deception, they themselves are never quite trusted
> again, even by their masters.
>
> Basically, I reckon most daimyo could find willing volunteers
> from among their own ranks for suicide missions, without having
> to resort to employing untrustworthy outsiders.
>
> Ieyasu and others did employ ninja, but I reckon it was for the
> more mundane and time-consuming operations of surveillance and
> information gathering, the day-to-day donkeywork of military
> intelligence, rather than the fantastic feats of fiction we
> read about.
>
> Thomas
[Previous #1303] [Next #1308]
#1308 [2002-12-13 04:10:30]
Re: A ninja tale?
by
thomas5403
Hi Brandon,
Currently I'm looking at what 'contribution' the ninja played to the
events of the Sengoku era - if any. (Difficult without records.)
Without getting into a discussion on the mythical status of the
ninja, I am trying to determine (purely for myself) how the daimyo
utilised ninja, and how effective they were.
In my opinion, I reckon their best contribution was in gathering
intelligence on the enemy, mostly by watching, which would involve
long periods spent in enemy domains. Spying, in fact.
The more theatrical activities - assassination being the most obvious
- I think had little or no influence on the general outcome - and was
probably not employed as much as everyone likes to think.
They might have had a more tactical short-term effect, but cannot be
guaranteed. (Koyama Castle, in my former post, remained in Takeda
hands even after the murder of its commander - but perhaps Amari's
death stopped his incursions into Mikawa.
I'm sure most daimyo could find samurai in their own ranks willing to
undertake hazardous missions without resorting to employing
outsiders.
In another tale, a samurai noted for his shinobi skills slipped out
of his beseiged castle, stole the besieger's standard, and put it
over the main gate for all too see, as a taunt and insult to the
besieger and a blow to their morale while boosting their own.
Thomas
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