will adams...

Do you think that Will Adams was the real life model of John Blackthorne in James Clavell's 'Shogun?' The similarities are striking: Adams came to Japan aboard a Dutch vessel, his chemistry w/ Ieyasu/Toranaga was very good and eventually both were conferrred samurai rank and were not permitted to leave Japan.

BTW, did Adams encourage Ieyasu's anti-Christian paranoia? In Clavell's novel, Blackthorne and the Jesuits were at loggerheads.

Other than Adams, were there foreign-born adventurers who claimed samurai status after serving the shogunate for a considerable abount of time?

Gabs

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James Clavell acknowledged that Will Adams was the model for Blackthorne
on several occasions.
Although he clearly took many liberties with history in order to make
for a more popular novel,
especially the romance between Blackthorne and Toda Mariko (modelled on
Hosokawa Gracia),
there can be no doubt that Blackthorne is Adams, plus a generous dollop
of Clavell and a dash
of Sean Connery to flavor the mix (Clavell wanted Connery to play
Blatckthorne in the movie version).

The Jesuits were implacably hostile to Adams and his co-religionists and
never missed a chance
to abuse them as pirates to Ieyasu and other Japanese authorities.
Adams probably returned
the favor, although suspicion of the Jesuits and European colonial
amibitions was prevalent among
the Japanese military hierarchy, going back to Hideyoshi and Nobunaga.
Far from being
paranoid, these suspicions were grounded on genuine concerns and some
knowledge of how
the Spaniards had colonized many parts of the new world using religion
as an advance guard for
military conquest.

Jan Joosten Lodensteyn was a Dutch contemporary of Adams who also became
a favorite
of Ieyasu. It is not clear if he achieved samurai status, but he
apparently had the right of
audience with Ieyasu, a right normally granted only to daimyo and
hatamoto samurai.

Hi Gabs -

Clavell based his book - very loosely - on real events,
Blackthorne is Will Adams, Lord Toranaga is Tokugawa Ieyasu and
the battle at the end was Sekigahara.

That aside, the book is written for the western reader with
little or no knowledge of Japan and samurai culture, and most
of what's written owes more to fantasy that fact, reinforcing
the commonly held and erroneous notion of the samurai. It's a
good read if mostly nonsense, although some find it insulting
and playing up to the idea of the 'exotic orient'.

Ieyasu was a very patient, vcery diplomatic, very skillful
leader who knew his own mind and exactly what he wanted and
how he was going to do it.

History suggests he would listen at length to the council of
his hatamoto, and then do precisely what he intended all along.
Whilst he and Adams did become friends of sorts, I reckon it

was always on the basis that Adams was such an outsider that he
could pose no threat as such. I doubt whether Adams ever got a
grip of the convoluted politics of Sengoku Japan, let alone the
deeper workings of Ieyasu's mind.

Regardless of what Adams thought of the Jesuits, Ieyasu played
his own game, and if anything Adams would have supplied the
information Ieyasu wanted to make a case for or against.

In short, his closest retainers rarely knew what was in his
mind, and I doubt any opinion Adams might have held would have
swayed him one iota.

As far as I know, Adams was the only foreigner to make the rank
of samurai, let alone hatamoto.

If you're really interested get hold of "The Needle-Watcher" by
Richard Blaker, a fictional biography of Adams and much, much
more accurate.

Thomas

samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>James Clavell acknowledged that Will Adams was the model for Blackthorne
>on several occasions.
>Although he clearly took many liberties with history in order to make
>for a more popular novel,
>especially the romance between Blackthorne and Toda Mariko (modelled on
>Hosokawa Gracia),

Tell me more about Hosokawa Gracia if you may? Does she also hold samurai rank?

Gabs

>there can be no doubt that Blackthorne is Adams, plus a generous dollop
>of Clavell and a dash
>of Sean Connery to flavor the mix (Clavell wanted Connery to play
>Blatckthorne in the movie version).
>
>The Jesuits were implacably hostile to Adams and his co-religionists and
>never missed a chance
>to abuse them as pirates to Ieyasu and other Japanese authorities.
>Adams probably returned
>the favor, although suspicion of the Jesuits and European colonial
>amibitions was prevalent among
>the Japanese military hierarchy, going back to Hideyoshi and Nobunaga.
> Far from being
>paranoid, these suspicions were grounded on genuine concerns and some
>knowledge of how
>the Spaniards had colonized many parts of the new world using religion
>as an advance guard for
>military conquest.
>
>Jan Joosten Lodensteyn was a Dutch contemporary of Adams who also became
>a favorite
>of Ieyasu. It is not clear if he achieved samurai status, but he
>apparently had the right of
>audience with Ieyasu, a right normally granted only to daimyo and
>hatamoto samurai.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
>---
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________
EDSAMAIL. Internet the way YOU WANT IT.
www.edsamail.com.ph

Do you think that Ieyasu and Machiavelli would click if they met in a dinner party?

Gabs

samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>Hi Gabs -
>
>Clavell based his book - very loosely - on real events,
>Blackthorne is Will Adams, Lord Toranaga is Tokugawa Ieyasu and
>the battle at the end was Sekigahara.
>
>That aside, the book is written for the western reader with
>little or no knowledge of Japan and samurai culture, and most
>of what's written owes more to fantasy that fact, reinforcing
>the commonly held and erroneous notion of the samurai. It's a
>good read if mostly nonsense, although some find it insulting
>and playing up to the idea of the 'exotic orient'.
>
>Ieyasu was a very patient, vcery diplomatic, very skillful
>leader who knew his own mind and exactly what he wanted and
>how he was going to do it.
>
>History suggests he would listen at length to the council of
>his hatamoto, and then do precisely what he intended all along.
>Whilst he and Adams did become friends of sorts, I reckon it
>
>was always on the basis that Adams was such an outsider that he
>could pose no threat as such. I doubt whether Adams ever got a
>grip of the convoluted politics of Sengoku Japan, let alone the
>deeper workings of Ieyasu's mind.
>
>Regardless of what Adams thought of the Jesuits, Ieyasu played
>his own game, and if anything Adams would have supplied the
>information Ieyasu wanted to make a case for or against.
>
>In short, his closest retainers rarely knew what was in his
>mind, and I doubt any opinion Adams might have held would have
>swayed him one iota.
>
>As far as I know, Adams was the only foreigner to make the rank
>of samurai, let alone hatamoto.
>
>If you're really interested get hold of "The Needle-Watcher" by
>Richard Blaker, a fictional biography of Adams and much, much
>more accurate.
>
>Thomas
>
>
>
>Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
>---
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________
EDSAMAIL. Internet the way YOU WANT IT.
www.edsamail.com.ph

Hi Gabs

Will Adams is an interesting subject, not only was he reputed to be the first North European on Japanese soil and that he became Samurai but he wrote a number of letters describing his "adventure" and many survived... You can view one at http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1611adams-japan.html although this has been "cleaned" to make it readable. There are many books detailing his life based on the letters as well as Faction Novels (such as Clavell's Shogun) and more than a few fictional works. Apart from various sources for copies of his letters, I have an early "Romantic Biography" published 1860 - entitled "Will Adams, The First Englishman in Japan" by William Dalton. Dalton "fills-in" between the letters and with some other sources makes quite an entertaining read. Will Adams is also covered in one of the chapters in Herbert H. Gowen's work "Five Foreigners in Japan" which is quite a factual approach... As an aside, one of the other chapters relates to a native american (although born under the British Flag) visiting Japan in 1848, he was named - Ranald MacDonald. - worth many hours of fun on that name!!

So back to Clavell.... There was a book published on the making of the film "Shogun"... "The Making of James Clavell's Shogun" ISBN 0 340 26155 2, which gives a fascinating insight into the novel and the story.

Regarding other foreigners... Papinot lists many "principal foreigners" in his supplement to his "Historical and Geographical Dictionary of Japan" but none appear to have been accepted into japanese society as samurai. Most appear to have lost their lives in one or other tortuous ways!!

Good luck with the searching,

Rod Johnson

----- Original Message -----
From: gabriel d gabaya
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 9:47 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] will adams...


Do you think that Will Adams was the real life model of John Blackthorne in James Clavell's 'Shogun?' The similarities are striking: Adams came to Japan aboard a Dutch vessel, his chemistry w/ Ieyasu/Toranaga was very good and eventually both were conferrred samurai rank and were not permitted to leave Japan.

BTW, did Adams encourage Ieyasu's anti-Christian paranoia? In Clavell's novel, Blackthorne and the Jesuits were at loggerheads.

Other than Adams, were there foreign-born adventurers who claimed samurai status after serving the shogunate for a considerable abount of time?

Gabs

_______________________________________
EDSAMAIL. Internet the way YOU WANT IT.
www.edsamail.com.ph


Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hosokawa Gracia was the wife of the daimyo Hosokawa Tadaoki, a strong
Tokugawa supporter.
She was also the daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide, the retainer of Nobunaga
who revolted, killed
Nobunaga, and was defeated by Hideyoshi shortly thereafter.

Gracia converted to Christianity against the wishes of her husband who
threatened to kill her
unless she recanted. She refused and he apparently relented. She
was known for her great
intelligence, learning and beauty. She was described by the Jesuits as
fluent in Latin and
Portuguese and of extraordinary piety.

There is an account of her death in Sadler's "The Maker of Modern
Japan." In brief, it says that
one of Hosokawa's retainers killed Gracia to prevent her from being
taken hostage by the
Toyotomi forces prior to the Sekigahara campaign.

Although James Clavell used her as the model for Toda Mariko, there is
no record of
Gracia having met Will Adams, much less having an affair with him.
Unfortunately there
is little information about her available outside of Japan. She was at
least as interesting
as the many famous men of that period.


gabriel d gabaya wrote:

>
> samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >James Clavell acknowledged that Will Adams was the model for Blackthorne
> >on several occasions.
> >Although he clearly took many liberties with history in order to make
> >for a more popular novel,
> >especially the romance between Blackthorne and Toda Mariko (modelled on
> >Hosokawa Gracia),
>
> Tell me more about Hosokawa Gracia if you may? Does she also hold
> samurai rank?
>
> Gabs
> >there can be no doubt that Blackthorne is Adams, plus a generous dollop
> >of Clavell and a dash
> >of Sean Connery to flavor the mix (Clavell wanted Connery to play
> >Blatckthorne in the movie version).
> >
> >The Jesuits were implacably hostile to Adams and his co-religionists and
> >never missed a chance
> >to abuse them as pirates to Ieyasu and other Japanese authorities.
> >Adams probably returned
> >the favor, although suspicion of the Jesuits and European colonial
> >amibitions was prevalent among
> >the Japanese military hierarchy, going back to Hideyoshi and Nobunaga.
> > Far from being
> >paranoid, these suspicions were grounded on genuine concerns and some
> >knowledge of how
> >the Spaniards had colonized many parts of the new world using religion
> >as an advance guard for
> >military conquest.
> >
> >Jan Joosten Lodensteyn was a Dutch contemporary of Adams who also became
> >a favorite
> >of Ieyasu. It is not clear if he achieved samurai status, but he
> >apparently had the right of
> >audience with Ieyasu, a right normally granted only to daimyo and
> >hatamoto samurai.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> >---
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________
> EDSAMAIL. Internet the way YOU WANT IT.
> www.edsamail.com.ph
>
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gabs,
In response to your question about Machiavelli and Ieyasu, from what I've
been reading in the emails, it's certainly possible. If not probable. :-)

Later.
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]