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Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate militar

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#10400 [2012-02-14 03:36:31]

Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate military conqueror?

by burmileche

I am currently studying Japanese history at University and was wondering who out of the three unifiers Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu was more militarily astute and could be crowned as the ultimate military leader amongst the three? Are there any examples to suggest why either is the ultimate unifier because of their military conquests? Also what military conquests and battles highlight the Sengoku periods including these three daimyo?

Help would be much appreciated... Cheers!

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#10401 [2012-02-23 23:00:07]

RE: [samuraihistory] Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate military conqueror?

by tengu 64

in that time period nobunaga was the man..rest of just catering the crops...but the ultimate warrior was taira kiyomori..he lick them all..all,fuziwaras.minamotos.ootomos...

To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
From: burmileche@...
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:36:31 +0000
Subject: [samuraihistory] Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate military conqueror?




























I am currently studying Japanese history at University and was wondering who out of the three unifiers Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu was more militarily astute and could be crowned as the ultimate military leader amongst the three? Are there any examples to suggest why either is the ultimate unifier because of their military conquests? Also what military conquests and battles highlight the Sengoku periods including these three daimyo?



Help would be much appreciated... Cheers!


















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#10402 [2012-02-25 11:28:59]

RE: [samuraihistory] Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

by docwho499

Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??















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#10403 [2012-02-25 16:10:52]

Re: [samuraihistory] Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate military conqueror?

by omajinchan

Of course, the big battle for Ieyasu was Sekigahara in 1600... This is the campaign Clavell fictionalized in SHOGUN as "Crimson Sky." Lots written about it. The battle at Nagashino (1575) in which Takeda Katsuyori laid seige to Nagashino castle also demonstrated some of Nobunaga's cunning (and his decision to buy firearms from the Portugese)...



-----Original Message-----
From: tengu 64 <tengu64@...>
To: samuraihistory <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 25, 2012 2:25 pm
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate military conqueror?





in that time period nobunaga was the man..rest of just catering the crops...but the ultimate warrior was taira kiyomori..he lick them all..all,fuziwaras.minamotos.ootomos...

To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
From: burmileche@...
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:36:31 +0000
Subject: [samuraihistory] Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate military conqueror?

I am currently studying Japanese history at University and was wondering who out of the three unifiers Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu was more militarily astute and could be crowned as the ultimate military leader amongst the three? Are there any examples to suggest why either is the ultimate unifier because of their military conquests? Also what military conquests and battles highlight the Sengoku periods including these three daimyo?

Help would be much appreciated... Cheers!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#10404 [2012-02-29 03:01:26]

Re: [samuraihistory] Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

by strategos_02

Sekigahara 1600
Location: Gifu Province, Japan
Type of Battle:Extended meeting engagement
Combatants: Western Army commanded by Ishida Mitsunari. Eastern Army commanded by Tokugawa Ieyasu, assisted by Kobuayawaka Hideaki
Result:A resounding victory for Tokugawa faction, leading to eventual victory in the Sengoku Jidai – a long series of civil wars.
Accessiblity:Good, by rail and road
Other: Battlefield monument, museum and ‘Warland’ battle theme park with excellent display of arms and armour. Shrine to the defeated Western Samurai near railway station.

Introduction
Japan in the 16th Century was torn apart by almost continuous civil war between rival clans and
their daimyo, or warlords, each
seeking to establish a military governorship of the islands with the title ‘Shogun’.
Ruling over them all was the
semi-divine Emperor, who legimitised temporal power by his presence, but took
very little part in day-to-day politics. Some families by clever political
intrigue had managed to elevate themselves to high status social rank, and
establish governorship over large areas of Japan. By the later 16th century chief among these clan leaders were Oda Nobunaga, Takeda Shingen,
Uesegi Kenshin, Toyotomi Hiyedoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu. From 1573 onwards, Oda
had established control over most of the islands, but was murdered in 1583 by
rebellious followers. He was succeeded by Toyotomi Hideyoshi, who became ruler
of most of the country and established his capital at Kyoto, with Osaka Castle
as his chief fortress. On his death in 1598  a regency for his infant son was established
under Tokugawa Ieyasu, Maeda Toshiie, Uesegi Kagekatsu, Mori Terumoto and Ukita Hideie, each vying with the other
for supremacy. It was a poisonous mixture that could only lead to further
bloodshed.
Soon Tokugawa Ieyasu had
attracted by far the largest number of followers and tried to set himself up as
heir to the Hideyoshi shogunate on the death of Maeda Toshiie in 1599. Faced by
potential risings on every quarter, Ieyasu left Osaka with the bulk of his
troops to menace the Uesegi clan. His enemies gathered an enormous force of
128,000 men, mostly from the Western part of Japan, hence known as the ‘Western
Army’. They camped around the pass of Sekigahara in October 1600, east of
Kyoto, in order to try conclusions with the ambitious Ieyasu.

The Battle
Ieyasu had received intelligence of his enemy’s intentions,
and knew that Kobayakawa Hideaki was prepared to come over to his side, along
with all his samurai and ashigaru,
the ordinary foot soldiers. Early in the morning of 21 October Ieyasu’s forces
moved into the attack and after some delay Hideaki’s forces treacherously
joined the general melee against his erstwhile allies.
Outnumbered and outflanked, Mitsunari fled and his troops
surrendered – about 9,00had been slaughtered on the field. Soon afterwards
Ieyasu was able to assume the regency, hunting down  Mitsunari and having him executed. Ieyasu set
up his capital at Edo, the site of  modern Tokyo, and in 1603 was appointed Shogun by the emperor. Rivalry
with the Toyotomi clan brought further conflict at Osaka in 1615, but the the
Tukugawa Shogunate remained in place and lasted after the death of Ieyasu until
1867, overseeing a lengthy period of peace and stability. Under the aegis of
the Tokugawa shoguns, the warrior elite of Japan turned their energies to less
warlike pursuits, becoming loyal servants of the state.

Sekigahara Today
The Tokugawa camp is now the site of a public park
opposite the town’s museum, where there is a significant collection of arms and
armour from the time of the battle. Extensive battlefield trails exist for
walkers to explore the area, and the kessen-ba,
the site of the final denouement of the fighting, is marked by a stone obelisk.
The entire site can be viewed from Mount Sasao after a brisk walk, where Ishida
had his camp. Opposite here, the slopes of Mount Matsuo give a panoramic view
of the battlefield from the point of view of Kobayakawa Hideyaki.

Sekigahara ‘Warland’ is a modern theme park near the
battle field with plaster statues of various warriors in authentic poses, and
while this will not necessarily appeal to everyone, it does house a very
impressive display of armour of the period.


________________________________
From: docwho499 <docwho499@...>
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2012, 19:28
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??


 
Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

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#10405 [2012-02-29 18:38:54]

Re: [samuraihistory] Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

by omajinchan

Not sure about battle sights off the top of my head, but Himeji Castle is a must-see... The fortified temples of Enryakuji and Miidera are also easily reached from Kyoto...

--RMB



-----Original Message-----
From: docwho499 <docwho499@...>
To: samuraihistory <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:40 am
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??




Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

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#10406 [2012-03-01 11:35:28]

Re: Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

by scott_rekishika

As far as I know Himeiji Castle will still be under reconstruction for a couple more years at least. I am not sure how much of it they have open at the moment, or will when you get there. Not to discourage you from going, just know that you probably will not be able to see all of it. As far as I know it is not completely closed off. They are just closing down the sections they are working on as they do them I think.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Tanuki wrote:
>
>
> Not sure about battle sights off the top of my head, but Himeji Castle is a must-see... The fortified temples of Enryakuji and Miidera are also easily reached from Kyoto...
>
> --RMB
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: docwho499
> To: samuraihistory <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:40 am
> Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??
>
>
>
>
> Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??
>
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#10407 [2012-03-02 06:52:59]

Re: Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

by zenblade12

When I visited in... 2003, I checked out the Odani ruins and the Anegawa "battle site". The land in that area is really beautiful, but there was not (at the time) too much preservation or many displays. Supposedly there may have been some renovation of the site(s) since then.

I thought Gifu was a really great site. I loved the sky cable car I had to take to get to the top, and you could see how powerful of a position the castle was. This great little mountain surrounded by lush fields and a nearby river (or at least that's how I remember it).

I also saw Nagahama. It was nice, nothing special. The best part of Nagahama was a map they had inside the castle showing the locations of other important castles (and how far away they were). It really hit home that the big players were fighting over very small stretches of land--and the major castles were often no more than a day or two apart (by horse) and no more than a few hours away by car.

I skipped Sekigahara (train went by it) because it looked toooo touristy. I like to be able to explore on my own, and my japanese was good enough back then to talk with the occasional random person when I got lost or confused.


--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "scott_rekishika" wrote:
>
> As far as I know Himeiji Castle will still be under reconstruction for a couple more years at least. I am not sure how much of it they have open at the moment, or will when you get there. Not to discourage you from going, just know that you probably will not be able to see all of it. As far as I know it is not completely closed off. They are just closing down the sections they are working on as they do them I think.
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Tanuki wrote:
> >
> >
> > Not sure about battle sights off the top of my head, but Himeji Castle is a must-see... The fortified temples of Enryakuji and Miidera are also easily reached from Kyoto...
> >
> > --RMB
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: docwho499
> > To: samuraihistory <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:40 am
> > Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
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> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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#10408 [2012-03-02 10:45:40]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

by docwho499

G'day,

Thanks for the info.

might come back with jpg's in 6mths to post

--- On Fri, 2/3/12, scott_rekishika <scottc_4@...> wrote:

From: scott_rekishika <scottc_4@...>
Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, 2 March, 2012, 6:35 AM








 









As far as I know Himeiji Castle will still be under reconstruction for a couple more years at least. I am not sure how much of it they have open at the moment, or will when you get there. Not to discourage you from going, just know that you probably will not be able to see all of it. As far as I know it is not completely closed off. They are just closing down the sections they are working on as they do them I think.



--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Tanuki wrote:

>

>

> Not sure about battle sights off the top of my head, but Himeji Castle is a must-see... The fortified temples of Enryakuji and Miidera are also easily reached from Kyoto...

>

> --RMB

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: docwho499

> To: samuraihistory <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:40 am

> Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

>

>

>

>

> Any recommended battle tours in central Japan (<2hr from Koyto )??

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#10409 [2012-03-01 20:06:23]

ENJOY

by martinisword9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NT1tPpkVMM&feature=related

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#10413 [2012-02-14 16:58:22]

Re: [samuraihistory] Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate military conqueror?

by martinisword9

if you do a wiki search you can find a lot of answers to your question and then you can make your own decision.



From: burmileche
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:36 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [samuraihistory] Who out of the three unifiers can be claimed as the ultimate military conqueror?


I am currently studying Japanese history at University and was wondering who out of the three unifiers Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu was more militarily astute and could be crowned as the ultimate military leader amongst the three? Are there any examples to suggest why either is the ultimate unifier because of their military conquests? Also what military conquests and battles highlight the Sengoku periods including these three daimyo?

Help would be much appreciated... Cheers!





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