Re:

My GUESS is that you don't.

It's very nearly impossible for foreigners to even get Japanese
citizenship, much less become a member of a traditional family. It isn't enough to
live there, become fluent in the language, even get married and have kids.

I keep thinking of Lafcadio Hearn. He eventually became a Japanese
citizen, after doing all of those things AND writing numerous books on Japanese
mythology and folklore. He essentially had to become a national cultural
treasure to become a Japanese citizen.

Simply put, unless you've got Japanese heritage, you're almost certainly
out of luck.

--RMB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 
 It is not that hard man... you don't have to be "Japanese" to have and use the crest. Maybe in some parts of  Japan itself people get tight about this..
 
 .. but... lets look at a different situation..
 
 For many Japanese-living in American and Japanese Americans (immigrants and citizens) it is simply a matter of being brought into the family AND being trusted/liked enough.  Basically, the more important you are, the more "inside" you get... etc.etc.. Especially if that family branch only had daughters and they need an "adopted son" to continue the line.. you think you won't get the crest?  I can't imagine someone being so ethnocentric/xenophobic as to let their family line DIE than to place it in the hands of their trusted "adopted son".
 Grant it.. we all have probably seen situations where the DAUGHTER will pass it down to the kids, and the non-japanese guy is completely skipped over.. This DOES happen.. but does not HAVE to happen. The key factor is usually the guys involvement in the wife's family... does he really fit into the family as a "clan member" or.. is he just that white guy that the daughter happened to marry ?
��� Devotion to the cause plays a big role in this equation. How many white husbands have Japanese wives --but don't have any interest in Japanese culture or the family affairs ? That is why they are not "in"... because they don't want to be.
 
ANyway....
 
 The choice rest with the family. It is THEIR crest, they decide who wears it.
 
 Somone might say that a family does not count if they are outside of Japan--- and to this, all I can say is :
 
 "Wow.. I didn't realize that the simple act of crossing a political border could erase thousands of years of family history ... thats is amazing !
 Ooohh oohh... If we go BACK to Japan, will that history magically reappear ?"
 
   Again... it is not about swords, borders, or doctrine... It is about the family itself. If the family authorizes you to wear the crest, you wear the crest.
     ���
   So.. like I said before--- either a family takes you in and gives you authorization to wear the crest..
 .. OR.. you just make one up yourself (like most commoners did at the beginning of the Meiji)  and pass it down..
 
�����������

--- On Sun, 4/18/10, Cearb@... <Cearb@...> wrote:


From: Cearb@... <Cearb@...>
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory]
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 5:36 PM


 



My GUESS is that you don't.

It's very nearly impossible for foreigners to even get Japanese
citizenship, much less become a member of a traditional family. It isn't enough to
live there, become fluent in the language, even get married and have kids.

I keep thinking of Lafcadio Hearn. He eventually became a Japanese
citizen, after doing all of those things AND writing numerous books on Japanese
mythology and folklore. He essentially had to become a national cultural
treasure to become a Japanese citizen.

Simply put, unless you've got Japanese heritage, you're almost certainly
out of luck.

--RMB

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was encouraged by Yokohama Immigration to become Japanese.
I have a Japanese wife and a business here. But that said,
without a Japanese spouse I think it is almost impossible,
unless you are a sports star, and will play for Japan.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Cearb@... wrote:
>
> My GUESS is that you don't.
>
> It's very nearly impossible for foreigners to even get Japanese
> citizenship, much less become a member of a traditional family. It isn't enough to
> live there, become fluent in the language, even get married and have kids.
>
> I keep thinking of Lafcadio Hearn. He eventually became a Japanese
> citizen, after doing all of those things AND writing numerous books on Japanese
> mythology and folklore. He essentially had to become a national cultural
> treasure to become a Japanese citizen.
>
> Simply put, unless you've got Japanese heritage, you're almost certainly
> out of luck.
>
> --RMB
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Kev --

Do you have any Japanese heritage? I was under the impression from a the
friend I mentioned (Japanese wife and kids, business and home in Japan) that
those with Japanese heritage stood a far better chance of getting
citizenship, whereas those without any stood very little chance (sports stars, of
course, excepted).

I recall reading somewhere that this was part of the reason the Japanese
population is shrinking -- modern parents have fewer children AND the country
allows less immigration / citizenship than others.

Then again, the US hasn't exactly been the easiest nation to get
citizenship in lately either...

--RMB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is not that difficult, and based on experience, it is HARDER to get residence in the US if you are a foreigner married to an American than it is to get residency in Japan if you are married to a Japanese.

By the way:

Permanent residence

Foreign residents who have shown good conduct and have sufficient assets or ability to make an independent living, can be granted permanent residence if they reside in Japan for typically ten or more consecutive years (less in case of spouses of Japanese nationals and people who have made significant contributions to Japanese society). Permanent residence status is indefinite and allows any paid activity.

Naturalization

Foreigners, who have resided in Japan for at least five consecutive years (less if married to a Japanese national), have shown good conduct, have never plotted against the Japanese government, have sufficient assets or ability to make an independent living and are willing to renounce any other citizenship held, can be granted Japanese citizenship.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Cearb@... wrote:
>
> Kev --
>
> Do you have any Japanese heritage? I was under the impression from a the
> friend I mentioned (Japanese wife and kids, business and home in Japan) that
> those with Japanese heritage stood a far better chance of getting
> citizenship, whereas those without any stood very little chance (sports stars, of
> course, excepted).
>
> I recall reading somewhere that this was part of the reason the Japanese
> population is shrinking -- modern parents have fewer children AND the country
> allows less immigration / citizenship than others.
>
> Then again, the US hasn't exactly been the easiest nation to get
> citizenship in lately either...
>
> --RMB
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Interesting information -- thanks!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No I don`t have any Japanese heritage. But I have heard the same as you that it being easier for those with Japanese blood to get citizenship.

I had complained at Yokohama immigration (after getting my
visa) that some of the staff were rude to some of the Asian people
at immigration. My second complaint was about the re-entry permit
being only for one year when the visa was for three or in my case now--a permanent visa.

In my opinion the re-entry permit is really just a special tax that
non-Japanese have to pay. I think it should be done away with.

The immigration manager encouraged me to become Japanese which really
surprised me. I am a blue eyed, brown (and now graying) Canuck.

The immigration staff are less rude nowadays. Not friendly but not
outwardly rude. I was shocked at some of the things that happened
14 years ago in Yokohama.

Definitely you are correct about the population shrinking because of the low birthrate and virtually no immigration apart from some international marriages. Currently I think 5% of new marriages
per year are international--Japanese and a non-Japanese.

The children of these marriages will literally change the complexion of Japan and probably the politics towards immigration as well.

Hatoyama is a step in the right direction (if I can be so bold at this forum). I think he is a sign of the future--a more open and
internationally minded Japan. I hope so anyway!

Kev

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Cearb@... wrote:
>
> Kev --
>
> Do you have any Japanese heritage? I was under the impression from a the
> friend I mentioned (Japanese wife and kids, business and home in Japan) that
> those with Japanese heritage stood a far better chance of getting
> citizenship, whereas those without any stood very little chance (sports stars, of
> course, excepted).
>
> I recall reading somewhere that this was part of the reason the Japanese
> population is shrinking -- modern parents have fewer children AND the country
> allows less immigration / citizenship than others.
>
> Then again, the US hasn't exactly been the easiest nation to get
> citizenship in lately either...
>
> --RMB
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I have to admit, I never thought too much about the re-entry permit, apart
from the inconvenience of getting them. But it does seem a sort of "gaijin
tax."

As for the politeness of the staff...well, compared to the US, the Japanese
seemed very polite and very efficient!

I am rather surprised you were encouraged to get Japanese citizenship --
very unlike much of what I had heard. Still, I think that Japan generally
wishes to remain Japanese -- that Edo-period isolationism hasn't entirely
gone away...

Thanks again for the info -- and to everyone else for their patience with
this tangent!

--RMB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]