SHQ - The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

#738 [2004-05-17 01:37:56]

The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by spiritus_saitou

For various reasons, I missed this film when it was released in theatres. Because of that, I've ignored posts here and elsewhere that talked about the film while I waited to see it for myself, so I have no idea what others have said and apologize if I'm only repeating the obvious. To cheer me up, my husband bought me a copy when it came out last Tuesday on DVD. I finally got to it tonight. Cheer me up? Ha!! I'm still friggin' crying while I write this...

No use asking me about anything technical about the film. I wasn't even paying attention to things like acting, plot, choreography, blah, blah, blah. I was too busy absorbing the atmosphere... to be able to get away from the anime environment and vicariously step into a world I could almost touch, smell, taste. A scene opens onto the streets of Meiji Yokohama and I'm immediately imagining Saitou walking there. We watch as Algren trains conscripts... how clumsy and slow they are at first... how hastily and sloppily they were being trained... how unready to march on samurai. I'm sitting there wondering what kind of training Saitou went through before being sent into the Seinan War... having to adapt to things foreign to him as a samurai. The last battle nearly destroyed me emotionally... by now I'm seeing Saitou on both sides --- the proud samurai defending Aizu against impossible odds and probable annihilation and the Meiji soldier putting down a rebellion. I don't care how
much vengeance he may have felt towards Satsuma... I cannot help but wonder what it felt for someone with his rich samurai background to use a gun against other samurai. I was beginning to think to myself it was a good thing if he had feelings of revenge... it probably kept him sane. When Omura's second-in-command demands the gunners stop firing the Gatling guns, removes his hat and kneels... the look of pain on his face says so much. (Uh... I lost count of how many times I physically jumped when a gun was fired... it really bothered me.)

It's stupid... I'm full of thoughts and yet speechless. :-D One comment at the very beginning, as Algren is crossing the ocean to Japan, struck me immediately and made me think of RK Saitou from the start... about having to accept the hard truth that being hired to suppress another rebel may be the only work he was suited for. I've often thought about that idea in regards to RK Saitou and how he might feel about it.

Guess I'll do some reading up on the film tomorrow... I'm curious as to how much, if any of it, is fact or if the characters were only meant to represent the history. I got the impression that Katsumoto was meant to represent Saigou (though he was too noble to be Saigou for me) and his rebellion the Seinan War. Whether they intended it or not, that's exactly what my mind said I was watching. I'm also somewhat curious now as to what kind of firearm Saitou might've used... I know next to nothing about gun history, but I was surprised to see them apparently loading shot (or maybe it was single cartridges) during the first training scenes. Too slow to face a samurai with, surely. It seems like I remember hearing somewhere that *reliable* repeating rifles were only coming into wider use around then. Did the Americans indeed negotiate with the Meiji government some kind of trade deal that included more sophisticated weaponry?

Whether the film was good or bad from a technical or strictly historical viewpoint, it certainly made things real for me and is making me re-think some things. And, honestly, I really didn't need more reason to feel how painful this time was in Japanese history.

phil (who thinks Katsumoto should've slapped some sense into the emperor when he had the chance... sorry, Barb... I just couldn't feel sorry for Meiji even knowing he was stuck between a rock and a hard place)

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#739 [2004-05-17 03:47:23]

Re: The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by secretarytocapt3

I just posted a link from e-budo.com of a thread at
http://www.shinsengumimb.com which compares Twilight Samurai to Last
Samurai (depiction of same era).
ONe of the Japanese actors in Last SAmurai is the lead in Twilight
Samurai.

Gunnery was one of the skills the Shinsengumi were quiet familiar with.
I drew this conclusion after seeing many of Nakajima Nobori's works
showing the younger guys with swords and rifles. Note as seen in
Mibugishiden when HIjikata yells to his men to use their swords at
close range---that was common sense to me too (use guns in an ambush
and use swords to "finish off" the enemy). Nakajima Nobori (who
should at least be the background of PMK---I insist!) also painted a
portrait of one of the older members of the Shinsengumi manning a
cannon. I believe one of the Japanese websites also lists a member of
the Shinsengumi who taught gunnery. Well, the group photo of Fujita
Goro shows him with a rifle. So he must've been knowledgeable of its
use.

In terms of Aizu...it was just outdated cannons vs. "newer" government
cannons so when it came down to it---it was about the money.

[Previous #738] [Next #740]

#740 [2004-05-17 04:45:10]

Re The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by bsher213

I _still_ wish the Saitou-like Ujio (Katsumoto's "right hand man" would
have said something like "If you did not make us take up arms with the
Choshu we wouldn't be in this mess."

>>
>
>

No need to apologize to me I think Meiji was a total doofus. and I think
the actor who portrayed him did a fine job in showing that (however, his
last bit at the end was SO unbelievable to me). I found a copy of the
script for the film online through www.simplyscripts.com and iI cannot
believe they cut this second bit out when Katsumoto goes to see the
Emperor---

EMPEROR
(subtitles)
I am a living God as long as I do
what they think is right.

KATSUMOTO
(subtitles)
Your Highness, forgive me for
saying what a teacher must, **but
such a statement is pathetic
drivel not worthy of an ignorant
stable boy, let alone a young man
I know to have some modest
intelligence.**

Bit of trivia that surprised me---I automatically equated the Omura
character with Okubo but there was in fact an Omura who was the War
Minister.

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net

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#741 [2004-05-17 06:02:19]

Re: The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by secretarytocapt3

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, spiritus saitou wrote:
The last battle nearly destroyed me emotionally... by now I'm seeing
Saitou on both sides --- the proud samurai defending Aizu against
impossible odds and probable annihilation and the Meiji soldier
putting down a rebellion. I don't care how
much vengeance he may have felt towards Satsuma... I cannot help but
wonder what it felt for someone with his rich samurai background to
use a gun against other samurai. I was beginning to think to myself
it was a good thing if he had feelings of revenge... it probably kept
him sane.

***but samurai were using guns against samurai for a couple hundred
years prior to Saitou's time (I know this because the present day
country Thailand exported gunpowder to medieval China/Japan). It was
just a whole lot more practical to keep swords on one's person than a
rifle...ofcourse the way of the sword offered more than just
self-defense there was a whole spiritual dimension to it as
well...samurai were ultimately pragmatists when it came to battlefield
tactics.
~No~ doubt he wanted revenge but here is something to consider...his
first son was hardly 2 years old...becoming a father can really make
one's life complicated...as someone with an insane amount of
battlefield experience (I'm still babelfishing his chronology line by
line---the man did not know when to quit) Fujita Goro understood very
well there was a 50/50 chance he would get killed or maimed...I don't
think he wanted to "abandon" his own son by getting killed...he, as
well as anyone in that era would've seen alot of orphaned children I
don't think he would want his son to be fatherless.
Note, in Remember Aizu it is mentioned that former Aizu men
volunteered to go to fight against the Satsuma rebels...however Fujita
Goro was already a policeman and the police were ordered to go fight
(the police were merely another branch of the military)...Toshiyoshi
Kawaji was himself from Satsuma! and he had to order his own police to
go put down this rebellion....so its a toss up as to whether Fujita
Goro either volunteered to go or he was ordered to go fight in this war.

[somewhat related nonsense speculating from me again]
some of us chatted at shinsengumimb.com and kicked around the idea
that he was an adrenaline junkie. Let's elaborate...he may've had a
deathwish of some sort to begin with sometimes the fish says he
"meant/meaning" to die at Buddha Hall, as I'm sure the 13-20 guys who
were there with them...but he didn't...at Buddha Hall I believe they
could not draw enough attention from the gov. troops which were merely
interested in making through the mountain pass as fast as possible to
get to the castle/town (and they were smart enough not to get
distracted by a small group which intended to harass them)...so he was
-resigned- to death already. The idea that "I was supposed to die
much earlier" may have been on his mind (recall old survivor's guilt
discussion)...I don't think he was an adrenaline junkie because people
back then had very different lifestyles than we do today (they killed
their own food sometimes built their own homes and many grew up in
rural communities and lived off the land)...in fact people who don't
usually face physical hardship tend to be adrenaline junkies (e.g.
office worker/college student become weekend warriors/atheletes to get
their dose of physical exertion/adrenaline). I also mentioned the
unique experience of battle...related to adrenaline...the heightened
perception and mind/body alignment needed to survive...but again at
this point in his life his sense of responsibility as a father would
have came first IMHO.

I'm also somewhat curious now as to what kind of firearm Saitou
might've used... I know next to nothing about gun history, but I was
surprised to see them apparently loading shot (or maybe it was single
cartridges) during the first training scenes. Too slow to face a
samurai with, surely.

***it is possible to figure out what firearms were used its just there
may not be books in English for us...the group photo shows their
rifles (an expert on the American Civil War weaponry even which zooms
in on the image would be able to help us I guess---they may have used
older model guns just because it may have been more affordable for the
gov.)...yes the Satsuma samurai fought effectively enough for Kawaji
to later write an essay saying that policemen should continue to hone
their sword skills because the sword was still an important weapon in
this rebellion...I've seen the western sabres from that exact time
period, online and it was just plain common sense for Fujita Goro and
his comrades to request the use of katanas...the sabre handle only
allows one to wield it with one hand...western sabres were also much
shorter. One look at those sabres and men who were trained in
kenjutsu may have said "no way I'm going into battle with an weapon
I'm not used to wielding".

It seems like I remember hearing somewhere that *reliable* repeating
rifles were only coming into wider use around then. Did the Americans
indeed negotiate with the Meiji government some kind of trade deal
that included more sophisticated weaponry?

***from studying Thailand, I know that there are many resources which
would clearly reveal this...trade agreements are very well documented
but boring to read...Phil you are asking for serious library research :P

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#742 [2004-05-17 06:23:01]

Re: The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by secretarytocapt3

I should've taken this discussion to the Rust Samurai thread at
http://www.shinsengumimb.com but I forgot to add that the irony of the
entire situation would not be lost to someone like Fujita Goro (change
uniform/sides put your life on the line).

I feel bad for the Satsuma Samurai who had to enter the
police/military after these conflicts (it is possible that they would
feel protected since it is public info that Kawaji was from
Satsuma)...but these guys needed jobs to feed their families...they
had no choice since they may not have had other marketable skills.

This situation reminds me of a line in the Bhagavadgita about how
warriors "should" throw themselves into battle and the god merely
"chews" them all up and spits them out again to be recycled over and
over again in the cycle of violence...yes I just butchered a major
literary work but that what said to me at least.

Did you notice in that group photo that some guys weren't even looking
at the camera? I know that taking photos back then was not an instant
process as it is today but some of those guys looked like they didn't
even care. What's up with the guy+fan anyways.
Oh, almost forgot again...3-hajime in the first forum one of the
ladies said something along the lines that photos from/related to the
Seinan Wars still illicits alot of emotions/feelings from people...I
think this is different from the American Civil War because as someone
born+raised on the WEST coast it just seems that people aren't
connected to the Civil War while people in the Midwest+East Coast may
even live near battlefields or their direct ancestors fought in the
war have a totally different view.

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#743 [2004-05-17 06:43:43]

Re: The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by secretarytocapt3

recall...

Fujita Goro in the Seinan war newspaper article...and we know that it
is our Fujita G. due to the matching rank and subsequent medal/$ he
was awarded (but there is no clear info as to exactly why he got the
Order of the Blue Paulownia---I'm just guessing its because of his
participation in the Seinan War)

http://www.1to5.net/saito/arekore/seinannews.html
(Phil, if you streamloaded the zip file then you have this already on
word format as 1to5seinannews.doc)

http://www.3-hajime.com/dekigoto13.html

(secretarytocapt3 grovels before anyone who can give us a better gist
of this article...all I know is that he was wounded/shot and there
seems to be alot of troop movement and the capturing of a cannon?!?
and fighting with the Satsuma bandit/guerrilla troops)...common sense
tells me that the Meiji gov. would print stuff that would make them
look good to the public

****just so you guys know...I read posts on Japanese sites and I'm
assuming that these people are "newbie" Shinsengumi fans but people
seem really surprised that Fujita Goro would take to the field in the
Seinan War...the thing is they never explain why they are surprised it
is usually a question "being true Fujita Five takes to the field in
Seinan War?" or something along those lines...

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#744 [2004-05-17 07:02:25]

Re: [SHQ] Re The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by wtiger_consort

Well, it's not a huge contribution to the discussion, but I couldn't close my big mouth... So here I'm...
Honestly Barbara, I share your opinion about Okubo and Omura. It seems to me that they have 'melt' Okubo in Omura.
Personally I didn't like the movie, and I a disagree with many things in it, but then again, you need to twist history a bit when you are doing a film, or otherwise it might bee too gory, too boring (or not... some periods were really a rollcoaster) and even too unbelievable (sometimes reality surpasses fiction). Look at the 'The Alamo' movie...
I thought immediately about the Seinan wars and Saigo. it's almost the same time period, a similar conflict, and Saigo also died committing seppuku according to popular belief, though the circumstances were different. He also was kept in high esteem by general public and his popularity was so great that the Meiji government had to grant him a posthumous pardon. In fact, he is even enshrined... Some details of the movie fitted too well into this picture, especially concerning the characters, to be merely fiction, though you can say it's a story loosely based on real events, and as such, you cannot say it is 'real' in the depiction of events.
I like the ending of the last battle scene though, it had an emotive touch, and I couldn't help but wonder what would have felt Algren at this point, when the respect of the victor over the defeated is so painfully obvious, and in such stark contrast with his experiences fighting the Indians.

----- Original Message -----
From: Barbara Sheridan
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:45 AM
Subject: [SHQ] Re The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

I _still_ wish the Saitou-like Ujio (Katsumoto's "right hand man" would
have said something like "If you did not make us take up arms with the
Choshu we wouldn't be in this mess."

>>
>
>
No need to apologize to me I think Meiji was a total doofus. and I think
the actor who portrayed him did a fine job in showing that (however, his
last bit at the end was SO unbelievable to me). I found a copy of the
script for the film online through www.simplyscripts.com and iI cannot
believe they cut this second bit out when Katsumoto goes to see the
Emperor---

EMPEROR
(subtitles)
I am a living God as long as I do
what they think is right.

KATSUMOTO
(subtitles)
Your Highness, forgive me for
saying what a teacher must, **but
such a statement is pathetic
drivel not worthy of an ignorant
stable boy, let alone a young man
I know to have some modest
intelligence.**

Bit of trivia that surprised me---I automatically equated the Omura
character with Okubo but there was in fact an Omura who was the War
Minister.

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net

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#745 [2004-05-17 08:41:32]

Re: [SHQ] The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by wtiger_consort

I just found this:

Saigo Takamori
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Saigo Takamori (#35199;#37111; #38534;#30427;) (1827/28 - September 24, 1877) was one of the most influential samurai in Japanese history. He was recruited to travel to Edo, modern day Tokyo, to assist the Lord Nariakira. He was later put in command of over fifty thousand samurai, a large part of the imperial army.

As a leader of the Imperial forces in the Boshin War, Saigo was one of the key figures in the Meiji Restoration. In spite of his humble background, he became the state councilor and army general of the new state.

Saigo disagreed with the modernization of Japan and the opening of commerce with the West. He did insist, however, that Japan should try to annex Korea before the West realized that country's potential. Because the other leaders of the restoration strongly opposed these plans, Saigo resigned and returned to his hometown of Kagoshima.

Shortly thereafter, he established a private academy in Kagoshima for the faithful samurai that had also resigned their posts in order follow him from Tokyo. In 1877, led by Saigo, they revolted against the central government, which had just eliminated their rice stipends. The imperial palace had recruited new guards who were nothing more than glorified rice peasants and armed them with modern weapons. The samurai, also being equipped with modern weapons, were able to seriously challenge the imperial army in battle for several months. Badly injured in hip during the fierce battle, instead of being killed or captured by the enemy, Saigo asked for his head to be cut off by a comrade to preserve his honor. Legend and art show that Saigo committed seppuku a traditional form of suicide before this, though autopsy and the original historical records deny this.

Many legends sprung up concerning Saigo, many of which denied his death. Many people in Japan expected him to return from India or China or to sail back with Russia's crown prince to overthrow injustice. Unable to overcome the affection that that the people had for this hero of tradition, the Meiji govenment recognized his bravery and pardoned him posthumously on February 22, 1889.

A famous statue of Saigo walking his dog stands in Ueno Park, Tokyo. Saigo's last stand against the Meiji government was the historical basis for the 2003 film The Last Samurai.

The Last Samurai
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Promotional poster

The Last Samurai is a film released in the United States on December 5, 2003. It is set in the 1870s in Japan and stars:

Tom Cruise as Nathan Algren, an American Civil War veteran
Ken Watanabe as samurai lord Katsumoto
Masato Harada as industrialist and pro-reform politician Omura
Shichinosuke Nakamura as Emperor Meiji
Hiroyuki Sanada as Ujio, one of the most dedicated and viscous samurai.

General information
The film's plot is loosely based on the 1877 Satsuma Rebellion led by Saigo Takamori, and also on the story of Jules Brunet, a French army captain who fought alongside Enomoto Takeaki in the Boshin War.

Algren goes to Japan to help the new Meiji government train its first Western-style army. He leads the army into battle against Katsumoto's men, is routed and captured, and learns the way of the samurai from his imprisonment in Katsumoto's isolated village. The movie's climax occurs as a rebel cavalry charge is stopped by Gatling guns.

Although many of the film's cast members are Japanese, the production crew is entirely American, and most of the movie was filmed in New Zealand.

Jules Brunet
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Captain Jules Brunet was a member of the first French military mission to be sent to Japan in order to help modernize the armies of the shogunate. He was a graduate of the �cole Polytechnique, and he specialized in artillery. He arrived in Yokohama in the beginning of 1867.

The mission was able to train the Shogun's army for a little more than one year, before the Shogunate lost to the Imperial forces in 1868 in the Boshin War. The French military mission was then ordered to leave Japan by Imperial decree.

However, Jules Brunet chose to remain. He resigned from the French army, and left for the North of Japan with the remains of the Shogunate's armies in the hope of staging a counter-attack.

Jules Brunet helped set up the Ezo Republic, with the leader of the Japanese shogunate's navy, Admiral Enomoto Takeaki, as the President. The final stand occurred in the northern island of Hokkaido, in the city of Hakodate, where in June 1869 the shogunate forces lost a final battle between 800 shogunate soldiers and an 8000-strong Imperial army.

Jules Brunet was sent back to France for trial. He was quickly rehabilitated by the time of the war between France and Prussia in 1870, and later rose to the position of Chief of Staff of the French army ("Chef d'Etat Major") under the Minister of War Chanoine (curiously, his superior officer at the French Military mission when he was in Japan) 30 years later in 1898.

See also: The Last Samurai

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#748 [2004-05-17 14:28:29]

Re: The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by spiritus_saitou

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Firuze Khanume
wrote:

>> I just found this:

SNIP

>>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

SNIP

>>The film's plot is loosely based on the 1877 Satsuma Rebellion led

by Saigo Takamori, and also on the story of Jules Brunet, a French
army captain who fought alongside Enomoto Takeaki in the Boshin War.
SNIP

>>Captain Jules Brunet was a member of the first French military

mission to be sent to Japan in order to help modernize the armies of
the shogunate. He was a graduate of the École Polytechnique, and he
specialized in artillery. He arrived in Yokohama in the beginning of
1867.
SNIP

>>However, Jules Brunet chose to remain. He resigned from the French

army, and left for the North of Japan with the remains of the
Shogunate's armies in the hope of staging a counter-attack.

>>
>>Jules Brunet helped set up the Ezo Republic, with the leader of the

Japanese shogunate's navy, Admiral Enomoto Takeaki, as the President.
The final stand occurred in the northern island of Hokkaido, in the
city of Hakodate, where in June 1869 the shogunate forces lost a
final battle between 800 shogunate soldiers and an 8000-strong
Imperial army.

Thank you so much, Firuze, for finding this!!!

Why, oh, *WHY* didn't the writers leave the story as it was!!! Why
choose Saigou when they had Enomoto and Hijikata! (I can just see
that final battle being led by Hijikata... could Uijo have been
patterned after him, I wonder? So much fire, such a demon!) Make
the foreigner an American if they had to... things done in the US
Civil War were gruesome enough (Tiff, I grew up near a Civil War
battlefield and while Arkansas never saw the bloodshed the deep South
did, it was still very much felt... maybe all battlefields have this,
but Pea Ridge and other Civil War sites I've been to felt haunted and
there was a sense of deep reverence about that piece of land ---
completely unlike the scenes of bloodshed at locations here in
Arizona... Tombstone, the Salt River Canyon (it doesn't take much to
see Apache braves standing guard amidst the rocks) and some of the
ancient Moqui (Anasazi) ruins are the only places I've felt that kind
of aura lingering) and there had been plenty of fighting Native
Americans before Custer made an ignominious name for himself.
(Naturally, the ONE thing I find believable about Katsumoto being
Saigou --- the connection to Custer --- and they completely buried it
by making him a victim... very subtle... too subtle for most people
to get. I also much prefer referencing Thermopylae in regards to
those fighting in Ezo, though it does apply to those honestly trying
to keep the samurai way of life alive in Satsuma.)

Psht... this is just all personal thinking out loud. New things to
think about when I watch it the second time. If anything, I'd
recommend it for the chance to step into Meiji Japan in living color
and Dolby sound (even if it was shot in New Zealand, which I knew
thanks to this household being Lord of the Rings crazy). There's
such a claustrophic feeling to Yokohama & Tokyo and that odd
disparity between the old world with telegraph posts and lines
everywhere that is so unlike the wide streets in anime, and the weird
mix of men in western suits walking among people still wearing
traditional clothing. When Katsumoto walks into the council, the
only one still in traditional garb... it was so suffocating compared
to council scenes of earlier times you see from samurai film. The
atmosphere is worth taking in.

And, MissB, that story idea I talked to you about has just been
turned in a lot of new directions, for the better I think... even if
Saigou has to become more than a black&white bad guy. What goes
around, comes around, ne? :-D

phil (still reeling)

[Previous #745] [Next #749]

#749 [2004-05-17 14:51:12]

Re: [SHQ] Re: The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

by wtiger_consort

hi Phil
When I read it today, I was thinking "what a fantastic story could be made out of if the events were told more in tune with the real thing, and not so mixed up." I'd really wish someone do it...
Firuze

----- Original Message -----
From: spiritus_saitou
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 6:28 PM
Subject: [SHQ] Re: The Last Samurai (Possible Spoilers)

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Firuze Khanume
wrote:
>> I just found this:
SNIP
>>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
SNIP
>>The film's plot is loosely based on the 1877 Satsuma Rebellion led
by Saigo Takamori, and also on the story of Jules Brunet, a French
army captain who fought alongside Enomoto Takeaki in the Boshin War.
SNIP
>>Captain Jules Brunet was a member of the first French military
mission to be sent to Japan in order to help modernize the armies of
the shogunate. He was a graduate of the �cole Polytechnique, and he
specialized in artillery. He arrived in Yokohama in the beginning of
1867.
SNIP
>>However, Jules Brunet chose to remain. He resigned from the French
army, and left for the North of Japan with the remains of the
Shogunate's armies in the hope of staging a counter-attack.
>>
>>Jules Brunet helped set up the Ezo Republic, with the leader of the
Japanese shogunate's navy, Admiral Enomoto Takeaki, as the President.
The final stand occurred in the northern island of Hokkaido, in the
city of Hakodate, where in June 1869 the shogunate forces lost a
final battle between 800 shogunate soldiers and an 8000-strong
Imperial army.

Thank you so much, Firuze, for finding this!!!

Why, oh, *WHY* didn't the writers leave the story as it was!!! Why
choose Saigou when they had Enomoto and Hijikata! (I can just see
that final battle being led by Hijikata... could Uijo have been
patterned after him, I wonder? So much fire, such a demon!) Make
the foreigner an American if they had to... things done in the US
Civil War were gruesome enough (Tiff, I grew up near a Civil War
battlefield and while Arkansas never saw the bloodshed the deep South
did, it was still very much felt... maybe all battlefields have this,
but Pea Ridge and other Civil War sites I've been to felt haunted and
there was a sense of deep reverence about that piece of land ---
completely unlike the scenes of bloodshed at locations here in
Arizona... Tombstone, the Salt River Canyon (it doesn't take much to
see Apache braves standing guard amidst the rocks) and some of the
ancient Moqui (Anasazi) ruins are the only places I've felt that kind
of aura lingering) and there had been plenty of fighting Native
Americans before Custer made an ignominious name for himself.
(Naturally, the ONE thing I find believable about Katsumoto being
Saigou --- the connection to Custer --- and they completely buried it
by making him a victim... very subtle... too subtle for most people
to get. I also much prefer referencing Thermopylae in regards to
those fighting in Ezo, though it does apply to those honestly trying
to keep the samurai way of life alive in Satsuma.)

Psht... this is just all personal thinking out loud. New things to
think about when I watch it the second time. If anything, I'd
recommend it for the chance to step into Meiji Japan in living color
and Dolby sound (even if it was shot in New Zealand, which I knew
thanks to this household being Lord of the Rings crazy). There's
such a claustrophic feeling to Yokohama & Tokyo and that odd
disparity between the old world with telegraph posts and lines
everywhere that is so unlike the wide streets in anime, and the weird
mix of men in western suits walking among people still wearing
traditional clothing. When Katsumoto walks into the council, the
only one still in traditional garb... it was so suffocating compared
to council scenes of earlier times you see from samurai film. The
atmosphere is worth taking in.

And, MissB, that story idea I talked to you about has just been
turned in a lot of new directions, for the better I think... even if
Saigou has to become more than a black&white bad guy. What goes
around, comes around, ne? :-D

phil (still reeling)

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