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Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com

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#686 [2004-05-12 08:45:33]

Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com

by secretarytocapt3

Dear friends,
It seems that someone from another forum followed my banner to our
shinsengumimb.com messageboard and took it upon himself to send me a
very nasty, nasty email.

1)The Shinsengumi were standing in the way of democracy [!]
2) They are evil cruel people etc etc etc
3) We aren't Japanese nor do we know the Japanese language therefore
we shouldn't even study them

So I had revised the announcement at the top of the messageboard to
clearly state "We welcome new members and critical analyzation of the
Shinsengumi. We accept and understand that the Shinsengumi are a
controversial group."

I hunted down this individual at the other forum and noticed that he
is ALSO not Japanese LOL but he is studying a Japanese martial art.

I believe that this person was greatly affected, as we all are, by
graphic images currently shown in the mass media as one of his many
comments dealt with executions. The person presumes that we cannot
comprehend or even deny the violence and brutality of that time period
and so on and so forth. He made some really horrible accusations on
how we seem to be glorifying violence.

So from now on please call me "sec" on that messageboard (abbreviation
of secretarytocapt3) because this guy kept calling me by my first name
. Now I must try to do something about my email :(

I just wanted to share.
Hopefully non of you here will receive a message from this person.

[Next #688]

#688 [2004-05-12 09:10:48]

Re: [SHQ] Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com

by antrekot

Dear Secretary,

It's apparent the gentleman in question is not exactly conversant in
Japanese history.

> 1)The Shinsengumi were standing in the way of democracy [!]
Ezu _Republic_. Can one really get further than _that_? (Oh, well,
Sakamoto Ryoma might have...)

> 2) They are evil cruel people etc etc etc
When compared to whom? Takeshi Hanpeita? Miyabe? Whatever one could
say about Shinsengumi, burning a city to gain one's political goal had
never been their cup of tea.

> 3) We aren't Japanese nor do we know the Japanese language therefore
> we shouldn't even study them
I wonder, what am I doing at the university, teaching Russian history
to English-speaking students?...

Regards,
Antrekot




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[Previous #686] [Next #690]

#690 [2004-05-12 10:28:32]

Re: Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com

by mg_batt

Sec,

I am very sorry to hear this happened to you. Why can't people just
respect differences in views and opinions instead of being a
flamer... Sorry if I kept referring to you by your real name on the
messageboards and even here.

As for violence... I do not condone it and I'm sure no one here
condone, much less glorify violence. It was the reality at the time
and could not be helped. For myself I see them just as people and as
how they were presented in the books, movies, anime that I have seen.
It's probably a skewed vision but that's why we study what
was "real". There will be times that I forget about all the violence,
but when I do remember, I do not condemn anyone (pro/anti shogunate).
I did not live during the time period so I have no right to judge
(but I do speculate), but I (we) do have a right to study them.

To everyone,

How about we announce here on the groups what we would like to be
called to "protect" ourselves not only from flamers but
also "others". I will now just go by my pen name "wounds" on all
groups/messageboards related to the Shinsengumi.

~wounds

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Tiffany" wrote:
> Dear friends,
> It seems that someone from another forum followed my banner to our
> shinsengumimb.com messageboard and took it upon himself to send me a
> very nasty, nasty email.
>
> 1)The Shinsengumi were standing in the way of democracy [!]
> 2) They are evil cruel people etc etc etc
> 3) We aren't Japanese nor do we know the Japanese language therefore
> we shouldn't even study them
>
> So I had revised the announcement at the top of the messageboard to
> clearly state "We welcome new members and critical analyzation of
the
> Shinsengumi. We accept and understand that the Shinsengumi are a
> controversial group."
>
> I hunted down this individual at the other forum and noticed that he
> is ALSO not Japanese LOL but he is studying a Japanese martial
art.
>
> I believe that this person was greatly affected, as we all are, by
> graphic images currently shown in the mass media as one of his many
> comments dealt with executions. The person presumes that we cannot
> comprehend or even deny the violence and brutality of that time
period
> and so on and so forth. He made some really horrible accusations on
> how we seem to be glorifying violence.
>
> So from now on please call me "sec" on that messageboard
(abbreviation
> of secretarytocapt3) because this guy kept calling me by my first
name
> . Now I must try to do something about my email :(
>
> I just wanted to share.
> Hopefully non of you here will receive a message from this person.

[Previous #688] [Next #692]

#692 [2004-05-12 10:43:48]

Re: [SHQ] Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com

by wtiger_consort

I have a very personal position about this kind of mentality and when I hear these things my blood boils. This is nothing more and nothing else but the true essence of fundamentalism, because fundamentalism is this, and has no nationality, religion, or color.

Fundamentalism is basically this kind of intolerance that allows someone to say this: xxx stands in the way of democracy (or God, or laicism like in France) (therefore, killing, torturing, invading and trampling down their culture and civilization is allowed. In the end it's for their own good), XXXXX is cruel and evil, etc, etc, etc (the OTHER in front of us is always cruel and evil, we aren't, we are the good boys, etc, etc, etc), We aren't Japanese (or, Iraqi or Muslims, or Latin Americans, Africans or Vietnamese, North or South Korean, Iranians, etc, etc) nor we don't know the Japanese language (or Arabic, Spanish, French, Russian, etc) therefore we shouldn't study them (widening the gap until the point we cannot regard the different human being in front of us just like another brother/sister in humankind, and we simply stop caring to understand their issues, which would allow us to get closer and get over our mutual differences. No, better just regard the others as plain alien,
so it's easier to wipe them out of the face of the world, without remorse whatsoever.)

As for the first point, what if they were (in the way of democracy)? it's no one business, but Japanese people to decide the kind of government the want(ed). Theirs and no-one else. And no-one has the right to judge them because of their choices. Besides, well, it's interesting that the person forgets that we aren't talking of our present day, but a different time period, where democracy as it's know and established nowadays was QUITE rare. Therefore, our present day's rules CANNOT and SHOULDN'T be applied.

As for the second point, I agree, when Antrekot mentions "compared to whom"? Let's not go there, because we could be reminded of the Crusades, the Conquest of the American West, or the Opium Wars, or the Latin American dictatorships and the desaparecidos (missing people) or, simply, Abu Ghraib prison, a few months ago (according to the Red Cross and Amnesty international, the US abuses are still raging in all prisons in Iraq, as well in Guantanamo Bay). Cruelty happened in Japan during that age, but it also happened all over the world in the same age period, as in the past or our present. Few days ago, we were talking about how unnecessary the nuclear bombings over Japan had been. That can be also considered a cruelty from America by Japanese people.

>>I believe that this person was greatly affected, as we all are, by
graphic images currently shown in the mass media as one of his many
comments dealt with executions. <<

Yes we are, as much as with the previous images that served as excuse for the brutal and criminal execution of the American citizen. Let's not be reminded that America is included among the five states that applied death penalty more frequently this past year, and many of the executed people were wrongfully executed (ie. they were innocents). The point is that even democratic estates applies executions, sometimes wrongly. Now, executions, as belonging to a legal system (like in Shinsengumi times) are one thing, illegal murdering of a civilian hostage. The first one can disgust people, but they belong to legal systems that might be changed by the people's will, while in the second case, we are talking about a crime, simply and plainly. Therefore this CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be compared. EVER.

But this present violence has to be understood in the PRESENT context, and never mixed with a different place and culture.
What we had in Japan was the inner strife over two factions over how to deal with the external superpowers of that period, and both had different programs, but one and the same goal in mind (which was what allowed Saitou to work for the Meiji authorities later): the survival and development of Japan. As much as American civil war, almost in the same time period, it was bloody and sometimes barbaric. Sorry, this is the nature of all wars.

What we have now it's the last link in a long chain of events (the last for now. Remember the previous link: the tortures to Iraqi civilians in Abu Ghraib. There will be retaliation for this execution, obviously, and the circle will never stop.) . It started some 20 years ago, when the US supported and backed up a revolution that placed Saddam Hussain of the so called lider of Iraq, because they wanted him to go to war with Jomeini's Iran. This started a long history of interference in the internals affairs of Irak, which was finished in this illegal war ( claiming the so called danger of mass destruction weapons in Iraq, while the US is the only country in the world who used biological weapons (it is proved that the US used them in three different opportunities) as well as nuclear weapons against civilian population) and occupation of the country with obvious economical goals in mind. So all this gore we see today started with a little snowball, and look we have now. Cause and
effect, nothing more nothing else.
And the person that wrote in the Forum should learn that promoting ignorance only makes things worse.

well, hope is not too off topic, but I had to take it out of my system. I detest this kind of fundamentalists.

Firuze.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tiffany
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: [SHQ] Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com


Dear friends,
It seems that someone from another forum followed my banner to our
shinsengumimb.com messageboard and took it upon himself to send me a
very nasty, nasty email.

1)The Shinsengumi were standing in the way of democracy [!]
2) They are evil cruel people etc etc etc
3) We aren't Japanese nor do we know the Japanese language therefore
we shouldn't even study them

So I had revised the announcement at the top of the messageboard to
clearly state "We welcome new members and critical analyzation of the
Shinsengumi. We accept and understand that the Shinsengumi are a
controversial group."

I hunted down this individual at the other forum and noticed that he
is ALSO not Japanese LOL but he is studying a Japanese martial art.

I believe that this person was greatly affected, as we all are, by
graphic images currently shown in the mass media as one of his many
comments dealt with executions. The person presumes that we cannot
comprehend or even deny the violence and brutality of that time period
and so on and so forth. He made some really horrible accusations on
how we seem to be glorifying violence.

So from now on please call me "sec" on that messageboard (abbreviation
of secretarytocapt3) because this guy kept calling me by my first name
Now I must try to do something about my email :(

I just wanted to share.
Hopefully non of you here will receive a message from this person.





visit

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/

our companion list featuring fanfiction/art


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
SHQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #690] [Next #693]

#693 [2004-05-12 13:37:00]

Re: [SHQ] Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com

by wtiger_consort

Tiffany, you can send this person to me if you ant. I'd be delighted to enlighten him with history facts.
Firuze
----- Original Message -----
From: Tiffany
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: [SHQ] Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com


Dear friends,
It seems that someone from another forum followed my banner to our
shinsengumimb.com messageboard and took it upon himself to send me a
very nasty, nasty email.

1)The Shinsengumi were standing in the way of democracy [!]
2) They are evil cruel people etc etc etc
3) We aren't Japanese nor do we know the Japanese language therefore
we shouldn't even study them

So I had revised the announcement at the top of the messageboard to
clearly state "We welcome new members and critical analyzation of the
Shinsengumi. We accept and understand that the Shinsengumi are a
controversial group."

I hunted down this individual at the other forum and noticed that he
is ALSO not Japanese LOL but he is studying a Japanese martial art.

I believe that this person was greatly affected, as we all are, by
graphic images currently shown in the mass media as one of his many
comments dealt with executions. The person presumes that we cannot
comprehend or even deny the violence and brutality of that time period
and so on and so forth. He made some really horrible accusations on
how we seem to be glorifying violence.

So from now on please call me "sec" on that messageboard (abbreviation
of secretarytocapt3) because this guy kept calling me by my first name
Now I must try to do something about my email :(

I just wanted to share.
Hopefully non of you here will receive a message from this person.





visit

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/

our companion list featuring fanfiction/art


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
SHQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #692] [Next #694]

#694 [2004-05-12 14:59:17]

Re: [SHQ] Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com

by k_closson2001

I wouldn't get too hung up over this person since
this happens on almost every discussion board I have
ever been on. There is always another person that will
act this way. Isn't the anonomity of the internet
great? lol ;)
The Shinsengumi were clearly "anti-terrorist" for
that time period. They weren't the ones stirring up
trouble in Kyoto. The notion of democracy really
wasn't in the minds of the people in Satsuma or Choshu
either. Ryoma Sakamoto being one of the exceptions.

Kevin

--- Tiffany <tnamwong@...> wrote:
> Dear friends,
> It seems that someone from another forum followed my
> banner to our
> shinsengumimb.com messageboard and took it upon
> himself to send me a
> very nasty, nasty email.
>
> 1)The Shinsengumi were standing in the way of
> democracy [!]
> 2) They are evil cruel people etc etc etc
> 3) We aren't Japanese nor do we know the Japanese
> language therefore
> we shouldn't even study them
>
> So I had revised the announcement at the top of the
> messageboard to
> clearly state "We welcome new members and critical
> analyzation of the
> Shinsengumi. We accept and understand that the
> Shinsengumi are a
> controversial group."
>
> I hunted down this individual at the other forum and
> noticed that he
> is ALSO not Japanese LOL but he is studying a
> Japanese martial art.
>
> I believe that this person was greatly affected, as
> we all are, by
> graphic images currently shown in the mass media as
> one of his many
> comments dealt with executions. The person presumes
> that we cannot
> comprehend or even deny the violence and brutality
> of that time period
> and so on and so forth. He made some really
> horrible accusations on
> how we seem to be glorifying violence.
>
> So from now on please call me "sec" on that
> messageboard (abbreviation
> of secretarytocapt3) because this guy kept calling
> me by my first name
> . Now I must try to do something about my email :(
>
> I just wanted to share.
> Hopefully non of you here will receive a message
> from this person.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

[Previous #693] [Next #695]

#695 [2004-05-12 15:47:42]

Re: Flame Warning + Privacy Issues Shinsengumimb.com

by secretarytocapt3

I appreciate everyone's concern and comforting words...I noticed that
even as an ezboard "guest" I was able to view some of your email
addresses which a couple of you listed in your profile.

So if you -do- get an email from him then keep in mind that I really
believe this guy was affected by what he saw on TV today and just
decided to take it out on our humble forum. So I'm refraining from
sending him to Firuze, our enforcer of internal rules and regulations
:) Strangely the board he and I visit discusses violence in the world
of martial arts (I just hope he understands the original, practical
purpose of martial arts back in the day LOL)...the only difference is,
-that- forum has {thousands} of members.

If anything his email clearly reveals how people don't really
understand the true face of war...and sometimes they assume other
people are just as ignorant.

secretarytocapt3

[Previous #694]


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