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#322 [2004-04-07 17:53:06]

Sword styles/schools

by bsher213

I know the Shinsengumi the members had come from various
schools/training styles but I'm wondering if certain styles were more
prevalent in certain areas than others. Example--- was there a top
school or style of swordsmanship used by those in the Aizu area?

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net

[Next #325]

#325 [2004-04-07 18:05:49]

Re: Sword styles/schools

by secretarytocapt3

Ack...Serizawa Kamo knows this stuff

Aizu: Mizoguchi-ha Itto-ryu
Source: http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=370

More details from very reputable scholar (one of the best)
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=0b6a6851c97997c39d58ab8b1a0a224d&threadid=16484&highlight=aizu




--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Sheridan wrote:
> I know the Shinsengumi the members had come from various
> schools/training styles but I'm wondering if certain styles were more
> prevalent in certain areas than others. Example--- was there a top
> school or style of swordsmanship used by those in the Aizu area?
>
> --
> Barbara Sheridan
> http://www.barbarasheridan.net

[Previous #322] [Next #334]

#334 [2004-04-08 15:50:36]

RE: [SHQ] Sword styles/schools

by shimazuryu

Off the top of my head, I remember the following styles of swordsmanship in
the Shinsengumi:

Tennen Rishin Ryuu (Kondou, Hijikata, Okita, Inoue)
Shintou Munen Ryuu (Serizawa, Nagakura)
Hokushin Ittoryuu
Mugai Ryuu (Saitou)

Seems to me that since Kondou was the head of Tennen Rishin Ryuu, the most
prevalent style would naturally be Tennen Rishin Ryuu-- Shinsengumi members
from other styles trained with its techniques regularly, so I suppose it was
somewhat of a common training.

--M.

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#521 [2004-04-22 10:26:44]

Re: Sword styles/schools

by serizawakamo

>
> I know the Shinsengumi the members had come from
> various
> schools/training styles but I'm wondering if certain
> styles were more
> prevalent in certain areas than others. Example---
> was there a top
> school or style of swordsmanship used by those in
> the Aizu area?


Some fiefs had the so-called "otome ryugi", that is, a
style of martial arts that were to be kept hidden in
secrecy, without being spread out to other places. In
the Aizu area, it was the Mizoguchi-ha Itto ryu. In
Tosa, the Muso Jikiden Eishin ryu (battojutsu style).
In Satsuma, the Jigen ryu. And so on.

Serizawa Kamo




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#522 [2004-04-22 10:30:07]

Re: RE: Sword styles/schools

by serizawakamo

Just a small addition:


> Off the top of my head, I remember the following
> styles of swordsmanship in
> the Shinsengumi:
>
> Tennen Rishin Ryuu (Kondou, Hijikata, Okita, Inoue)
> Shintou Munen Ryuu (Serizawa, Nagakura)


Niimi Nishiki, Noguchi Kenji, Hirayama Gorou, Hirama
Jusuke


> Hokushin Ittoryuu


Toudou Heisuke, Yamanami Keisuke :)


> Mugai Ryuu (Saitou)
>
> Seems to me that since Kondou was the head of Tennen
> Rishin Ryuu, the most
> prevalent style would naturally be Tennen Rishin
> Ryuu-- Shinsengumi members
> from other styles trained with its techniques
> regularly, so I suppose it was
> somewhat of a common training.


In one of the remaining branches of Tennen Rishin ryu
nowadays, they practice some of the techniques
supposedly trained at the Shinsengumi dojo. It is said
that those techniques were taught by Nagakura
Shinpachi and Saitou Hajime to some Tennen Rishin
practitioners who kept those techniques alive till
today.


Serizawa Kamo




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#803 [2004-05-20 21:17:07]

S.H.'s Sword styles/schools (continued)

by secretarytocapt3

To understand these guys...we have to understand that they identified
themselves with their martial arts lineages as well.

Recall momoiro-usagi's info [post # 792]
"Supplement:
Why Yamaguchi Hajime chose Saitou as the assumed name does not remain
in record.
In a report, the expert of the sword of a family name called Saitou is
in sword style "Mugai-ryuu" which he studied,
and it is said that it became a basis."

Mugai Ryu
http://www.shinjinkai.org/mugaihist.html
things I noticed from the link above...(this speculation is left out
of the shinsengumimb.com post)
1) Gettan, the founder of the lineage (he had more than one name), is
described as " the sharp eyes of a fencing master shining"….this seems
to be a "stock phrase" as on Japanese sites S.H. had "eyes from which
light shown"…that is good eyesight to gauge the situation? Intuition?
Both?
What I found to be very difficult in kendo is to look at the
opponent's entire body while not focusing on just one spot…his/her
eyes (through the metal face guard), hands, feet etc even though many
of us in the club are hardly executing the basic strikes correctly,
the instructors are always telling us to keep our eyes on the
opponent's entire frame (many such as myself keep checking on my own
wrist etc etc). This is similar to driving…just try to get a wide
field of vision without losing focus on anything.

2) " Gettan passed away peacefully while deep in meditation, his
rosary in his left hand, his hossu (Zen Master's whisk) in his
right." Remember how hist. S.H. died?

3) " Famous techniques of Mugairyu include the upward cut from the
draw (gyaku-kesagiri), the horizontal cut across the heart
(yoko-ichimonji) and DEEP THRUSTS (TSUKI) MADE WHILE SUPPORTING THE
BACK OF THE BLADE WITH ONE HAND. Mugairyu students master the twenty
basic kata of the style, and then go on to learn deeper and secret
kata, including kumitachi (two-person forms) with both the long and
short swords."

So from reading other books own martial arts I realized that
practitioners, especially during that time period not only studied the
art/science of combat but its spiritual dimension AND became very much
acquainted with its "lore" the stories of the founders and previous
students are always handed down…if indeed S.H. was part of Mugai Ryu
then he was more than aware of these stories.

Sekiguchi Shin Shin Ryu Jujutsu (bare handed technique)
http://www.bushinjuku.com/arts/bushinarts/sgrjj/sekiguchijj.htm
Just pretty cool to read how it was associated with the Tokugawas…..

http://p199.ezboard.com/fsamuraibujutsufrm36.showMessage?topicID=8.topic
"Sekiguchi Ryu was a favored martial arts system of the Tokugawa
Shogunate."
Yes we all know the Tokugawas favored Yagyu Shinkage ryu (messed up
spelling) but this lineage was also highly favored as well

Last but not least one of the sword lineages S.H. practiced grouped
its katas into sets of 5…Go in Goro?
Okay I'm being stupid again…many lineages have their own ways to group
katas and I'm sure it changes…just lost control there with the
speculating…:D

I added all the links at
http://p076.ezboard.com/fshinsengumiheadquartersfrm22.showMessage?topicID=2=
.topic
the links all deal with many of the lineages S.H. supposedly
studied/practiced...
----------------------------
I also added links to Barbara/Masayoshi's humor updates at SHQ

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