Kyoto Arc does NOT begin with a battle at the Ikedaya

Rurouni Kenshin's Kyoto Arc does NOT begin with a brief battle at the Ikedaya. The name
of the inn IS actually listed in the anime (Eventhough I could not read that, I could read
"Ikedaya.") Also, Kenshin does NOT have the complete cross-shape scar till Dec (lunar
calendar), 1864. In addition, one could also get several clues from the conversation at the
inn.

The Ikedaya Affair took place in June (lunar calendar) 1864. However, the Shinsengumi
didn't have 10 units until 1865 (Saito wasn't the captain of the 3rd squad and Okita wasn't
the captain of the 1st squad till then.)

From DVD Vol 7:
"Apparently, goverment army members are pouring into Kyoto mainly from Satsuma and
Choshin."

Army members from Satsuma went to Kyoto in October (lunar calendar) 1865 and in
November (lunar calendar) 1867. They weren't around Kyoto in June (lunar
caleander) 1864. (The Satsuma army was around a month after the Ikedaya Affair though.)

I've been wondering whether "Choshin" could be "Chushu" (or could include Chushu). If so,
then we all know that the alliance between Satsuma and Choshu was formed in January
(lunar calendar) 1866.

In addition, there would be no camellia around in June (lunar calendar.)

I haven't looked at the OVA and anime introductions of the context of
our introduction to Himura the Battousai recently to even gauge
whether historically one is more accurate than the other.

However, I think that because production of the animated series was
occurring as Watsuki was still revealing the later Jinchuu arc and the
events surround Tomoe that the correct contiuity to work from is the
OVA and the manga.

I'm not sure what your questions are about the Satsuma and Choshu from
your post. Were you trying to reconcile errors in the subtitles? If
it appeared as "Choshi" or "Choshin," it probably should have read
"Choshu," "Choushu," or some permutation of those.

Welcome to the list, btw. If you need more information on the Choshu,
I can redirect you to a few links (although they are listed at the
main Shinsengumi page) and communities.

S

Sorry I didn't make it clear enough. I meant to make a suggestion.

From the SHQ FILM/TV/ANIME/VID GAMES
(http://www.shinsengumihq.com/pop.htm):
"I think of this Okita as the young man with the flower fetish. We don't get but a glimpse of
him, but he kiks some serious butt at the Ikedaya. It's a pity Saitou intervened when that
Kami damned battousai showed up."

Perhaps that should be corrected?

PS In the manga, it's also stated clearly during the Kyoto Arc, that Kenshin didn't fight
Saito or Okita until 1865.

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "onigiribeanie" wrote:
>
> I haven't looked at the OVA and anime introductions of the context of
> our introduction to Himura the Battousai recently to even gauge
> whether historically one is more accurate than the other.
>
> However, I think that because production of the animated series was
> occurring as Watsuki was still revealing the later Jinchuu arc and the
> events surround Tomoe that the correct contiuity to work from is the
> OVA and the manga.
>
> I'm not sure what your questions are about the Satsuma and Choshu from
> your post. Were you trying to reconcile errors in the subtitles? If
> it appeared as "Choshi" or "Choshin," it probably should have read
> "Choshu," "Choushu," or some permutation of those.
>
> Welcome to the list, btw. If you need more information on the Choshu,
> I can redirect you to a few links (although they are listed at the
> main Shinsengumi page) and communities.
>
> S
>

nlf7 wrote:

> Sorry I didn't make it clear enough. I meant to make a suggestion.
>
>>From the SHQ FILM/TV/ANIME/VID GAMES
> (http://www.shinsengumihq.com/pop.htm):
> "I think of this Okita as the young man with the flower fetish. We don't get but a glimpse of
> him, but he kiks some serious butt at the Ikedaya. It's a pity Saitou intervened when that
> Kami damned battousai showed up."
>
> Perhaps that should be corrected?

Since I'm the one who wrote that bit of commentary I don't think there's
anything to "correct" really. It was simply MY impression of that
version of Okita. ( that comes across as I think but it is _not_ meant
to be. ^_^)

Though it's been a long time since I watched it I do recall Saitou
coming into it when Kenshin arrives to "save the day" for his fleeing
comrades.
--
~Barbara Sheridan
Blood Brothers & The Dragon's Disciple on Sale now!
http://www.dragonsdisciple.com

Only one word has to be corrected, " Ikedaya." Please refer to my original
message for more information. In addition, I've uploaded a screen cap of the
name of the inn from ep.28. (By the way, could anyone read that? I know it's
not " Ikedaya" but what is it?)

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/photos/view/470f?b=17

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_12287916/470f/__sr_/
10fb.jpg?grw9tjEB31NWQEpO
I've explained this one to people nearly 100 times. It would be helpful if you
could make one tiny correction. I apologize for any inconveneince.

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Sheridan wrote:

> Since I'm the one who wrote that bit of commentary I don't think there's
> anything to "correct" really. It was simply MY impression of that
> version of Okita. ( that comes across as I think but it is _not_ meant
> to be. ^_^)
>
> Though it's been a long time since I watched it I do recall Saitou
> coming into it when Kenshin arrives to "save the day" for his fleeing
> comrades.
> --
> ~Barbara Sheridan
> Blood Brothers & The Dragon's Disciple on Sale now!
> http://www.dragonsdisciple.com
>

Hi,

There is a way to explain everything and put an end to the growing confusion...

In volume 20 of RK (not animated unfortunately), which depicts Kenshin's past with Tomoe, you can see a description of what happens at Ikedaya, from Kenshin's pov. As we see in that volume, Kenshin never intervened at Ikedaya, only becoming aware of the events once everything is over. He then assists to the Shinsengumi "parade" and exchange a long look with Saito. Kenshin then thinks "J'ai l'impression que je reverrai souvent cet homme..." or if I'm translating from the French version "I was under the impression that I would often see that man in the future...", implying that they didn't knew each other yet.

Then, in volume 21, once Tomoe is dead (sorry, if I'm spoiling that to anyone, but... where have you been?) Kenshin returns to Kyoto and soon engage in a duel with Saito for the first time. Seeing him, Saito says "Je me disais bien que ce n'était pas un sabreur ordinaire... c'était donc cela" or "I thought he was no ordinary swordsman... this explains it...", meaning that he just understood that the man he saw in the crowd after Ikedaya is Battosai.

So knowing this, it then becomes clear that the scene in volume 7 (or episode 28) does not happens at Ikedaya, like many people thinks, but WAY after Ikedaya. It really is a common mistake as I've also been under that impression for a long time.

Mary-Ann


nlf7 <nlf7@...> wrote: Only one word has to be corrected, " Ikedaya." Please refer to my original
message for more information. In addition, I've uploaded a screen cap of the
name of the inn from ep.28. (By the way, could anyone read that? I know it's
not " Ikedaya" but what is it?)

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/photos/view/470f?b=17

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_12287916/470f/__sr_/
10fb.jpg?grw9tjEB31NWQEpO
I've explained this one to people nearly 100 times. It would be helpful if you
could make one tiny correction. I apologize for any inconveneince.

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Sheridan wrote:

> Since I'm the one who wrote that bit of commentary I don't think there's
> anything to "correct" really. It was simply MY impression of that
> version of Okita. ( that comes across as I think but it is _not_ meant
> to be. ^_^)
>
> Though it's been a long time since I watched it I do recall Saitou
> coming into it when Kenshin arrives to "save the day" for his fleeing
> comrades.
> --
> ~Barbara Sheridan
> Blood Brothers & The Dragon's Disciple on Sale now!
> http://www.dragonsdisciple.com
>





__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here, in this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikedaya_Affair,

though it mentions that the incident was portrayed in the OVA.

The words in between brackets at the beginning of the article are Ikedaya
Jiken and are divided/cut like this: ike-da-ya-ji-ken.

Also you can check here: http://ikedaya.blog.ocn.ne.jp/

The words under Ikedaya in roman letters says Ikedaya and Gallery

The Kanji doesn't correspond to the ones shown in the caption (the one for
da is missing for one), so definitely, it's not Ikedaya.

Firuze

-------Original Message-------

From: nlf7
Date: 06/13/06 09:19:56
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SHQ] for nlf-- Re: Kyoto Arc does NOT begin with a battle at the
Ikedaya

Only one word has to be corrected, " Ikedaya." Please refer to my original
message for more information. In addition, I've uploaded a screen cap of the

name of the inn from ep.28. (By the way, could anyone read that? I know it's

not " Ikedaya" but what is it?)

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/photos/view/470f?b=17

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_12287916/470f/__sr_/
10fb.jpg?grw9tjEB31NWQEpO
I've explained this one to people nearly 100 times. It would be helpful if
you
could make one tiny correction. I apologize for any inconveneince.

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Sheridan wrote:

> Since I'm the one who wrote that bit of commentary I don't think there's
> anything to "correct" really. It was simply MY impression of that
> version of Okita. ( that comes across as I think but it is _not_ meant
> to be. ^_^)
>
> Though it's been a long time since I watched it I do recall Saitou
> coming into it when Kenshin arrives to "save the day" for his fleeing
> comrades.
> --
> ~Barbara Sheridan
> Blood Brothers & The Dragon's Disciple on Sale now!
> http://www.dragonsdisciple.com
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, I corrected the inaccurate info in regard of the RK anime in the wiki article on 27
March 2006. I've also left a message on the Ikedaya Affair discussion page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ikedaya_Jiken.

Hopefully, other edotors won't edit that mistake back in.

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "F Khanume" wrote:
>
> Here, in this article:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikedaya_Affair,
>
> though it mentions that the incident was portrayed in the OVA.
>
> The words in between brackets at the beginning of the article are Ikedaya
> Jiken and are divided/cut like this: ike-da-ya-ji-ken.
>
> Also you can check here: http://ikedaya.blog.ocn.ne.jp/
>
> The words under Ikedaya in roman letters says Ikedaya and Gallery
>
> The Kanji doesn't correspond to the ones shown in the caption (the one for
> da is missing for one), so definitely, it's not Ikedaya.
>
> Firuze
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: nlf7
> Date: 06/13/06 09:19:56
> To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SHQ] for nlf-- Re: Kyoto Arc does NOT begin with a battle at the
> Ikedaya
>
> Only one word has to be corrected, " Ikedaya." Please refer to my original
> message for more information. In addition, I've uploaded a screen cap of the
>
> name of the inn from ep.28. (By the way, could anyone read that? I know it's
>
> not " Ikedaya" but what is it?)
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/photos/view/470f?b=17
>
> http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_12287916/470f/__sr_/
> 10fb.jpg?grw9tjEB31NWQEpO
> I've explained this one to people nearly 100 times. It would be helpful if
> you
> could make one tiny correction. I apologize for any inconveneince.
>
> --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Sheridan wrote:
>
> > Since I'm the one who wrote that bit of commentary I don't think there's
> > anything to "correct" really. It was simply MY impression of that
> > version of Okita. ( that comes across as I think but it is _not_ meant
> > to be. ^_^)
> >
> > Though it's been a long time since I watched it I do recall Saitou
> > coming into it when Kenshin arrives to "save the day" for his fleeing
> > comrades.
> > --
> > ~Barbara Sheridan
> > Blood Brothers & The Dragon's Disciple on Sale now!
> > http://www.dragonsdisciple.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I know! but a lot of people haven't read the manga. That's why sometimes I get questions
like "Is Saito killed at the end of the Kyoto Arc?"

~Seven

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Mary-Ann wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> There is a way to explain everything and put an end to the growing confusion...
>
> In volume 20 of RK (not animated unfortunately), which depicts Kenshin's past with
Tomoe, you can see a description of what happens at Ikedaya, from Kenshin's pov. As we
see in that volume, Kenshin never intervened at Ikedaya, only becoming aware of the
events once everything is over. He then assists to the Shinsengumi "parade" and exchange
a long look with Saito. Kenshin then thinks "J'ai l'impression que je reverrai souvent cet
homme..." or if I'm translating from the French version "I was under the impression that I
would often see that man in the future...", implying that they didn't knew each other yet.
>
> Then, in volume 21, once Tomoe is dead (sorry, if I'm spoiling that to anyone, but...
where have you been?) Kenshin returns to Kyoto and soon engage in a duel with Saito for
the first time. Seeing him, Saito says "Je me disais bien que ce n'était pas un sabreur
ordinaire... c'était donc cela" or "I thought he was no ordinary swordsman... this explains
it...", meaning that he just understood that the man he saw in the crowd after Ikedaya is
Battosai.
>
> So knowing this, it then becomes clear that the scene in volume 7 (or episode 28) does
not happens at Ikedaya, like many people thinks, but WAY after Ikedaya. It really is a
common mistake as I've also been under that impression for a long time.
>
> Mary-Ann
>
>
> nlf7 wrote: Only one word has to be corrected, " Ikedaya."
Please refer to my original
> message for more information. In addition, I've uploaded a screen cap of the
> name of the inn from ep.28. (By the way, could anyone read that? I know it's
> not " Ikedaya" but what is it?)
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/photos/view/470f?b=17
>
> http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_12287916/470f/__sr_/
> 10fb.jpg?grw9tjEB31NWQEpO
> I've explained this one to people nearly 100 times. It would be helpful if you
> could make one tiny correction. I apologize for any inconveneince.
>
> --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Sheridan wrote:
>
> > Since I'm the one who wrote that bit of commentary I don't think there's
> > anything to "correct" really. It was simply MY impression of that
> > version of Okita. ( that comes across as I think but it is _not_ meant
> > to be. ^_^)
> >
> > Though it's been a long time since I watched it I do recall Saitou
> > coming into it when Kenshin arrives to "save the day" for his fleeing
> > comrades.
> > --
> > ~Barbara Sheridan
> > Blood Brothers & The Dragon's Disciple on Sale now!
> > http://www.dragonsdisciple.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

PS In the anime, Saito does make an appearance at the very end of the Kyoto Arc.
I guess that question had came from people that hadn't finish watching the animated
Kyoto Arc.

~Seven

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "nlf7" wrote:
>
> I know! but a lot of people haven't read the manga. That's why sometimes I get
questions
> like "Is Saito killed at the end of the Kyoto Arc?"
>
> ~Seven
>
> --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Mary-Ann wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > There is a way to explain everything and put an end to the growing confusion...
> >
> > In volume 20 of RK (not animated unfortunately), which depicts Kenshin's past with
> Tomoe, you can see a description of what happens at Ikedaya, from Kenshin's pov. As
we
> see in that volume, Kenshin never intervened at Ikedaya, only becoming aware of the
> events once everything is over. He then assists to the Shinsengumi "parade" and
exchange
> a long look with Saito. Kenshin then thinks "J'ai l'impression que je reverrai souvent cet
> homme..." or if I'm translating from the French version "I was under the impression that
I
> would often see that man in the future...", implying that they didn't knew each other yet.
> >
> > Then, in volume 21, once Tomoe is dead (sorry, if I'm spoiling that to anyone, but...
> where have you been?) Kenshin returns to Kyoto and soon engage in a duel with Saito
for
> the first time. Seeing him, Saito says "Je me disais bien que ce n'était pas un sabreur
> ordinaire... c'était donc cela" or "I thought he was no ordinary swordsman... this
explains
> it...", meaning that he just understood that the man he saw in the crowd after Ikedaya is
> Battosai.
> >
> > So knowing this, it then becomes clear that the scene in volume 7 (or episode 28)
does
> not happens at Ikedaya, like many people thinks, but WAY after Ikedaya. It really is a
> common mistake as I've also been under that impression for a long time.
> >
> > Mary-Ann
> >
> >
> > nlf7 wrote: Only one word has to be corrected, "
Ikedaya."
> Please refer to my original
> > message for more information. In addition, I've uploaded a screen cap of the
> > name of the inn from ep.28. (By the way, could anyone read that? I know it's
> > not " Ikedaya" but what is it?)
> >
> > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/photos/view/470f?b=17
> >
> > http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_12287916/470f/__sr_/
> > 10fb.jpg?grw9tjEB31NWQEpO
> > I've explained this one to people nearly 100 times. It would be helpful if you
> > could make one tiny correction. I apologize for any inconveneince.
> >
> > --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Sheridan wrote:
> >
> > > Since I'm the one who wrote that bit of commentary I don't think there's
> > > anything to "correct" really. It was simply MY impression of that
> > > version of Okita. ( that comes across as I think but it is _not_ meant
> > > to be. ^_^)
> > >
> > > Though it's been a long time since I watched it I do recall Saitou
> > > coming into it when Kenshin arrives to "save the day" for his fleeing
> > > comrades.
> > > --
> > > ~Barbara Sheridan
> > > Blood Brothers & The Dragon's Disciple on Sale now!
> > > http://www.dragonsdisciple.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>