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Hillsborough book in stores

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#2565 [2005-10-01 13:41:05]

Hillsborough book in stores

by zhusanna

Just wanted to let everyone know that even though the publisher's
website still lists this as out of stock until 10/15, I got mine
yesterday at my local Barnes & Noble.


--Wanda

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#2566 [2005-10-02 08:20:49]

Re: Hillsborough book in stores

by secretarytocapt3

The link to Amazon is on http://www.shinsengumihq.com/
I noticed the title has been changed

Shinsengumi: The Shogun's Last Samurai Corps by Romulus Hillsborough
the original title had "bloody legacy" in it which wouldn't be an
exaggeration but I think the first title was meant to attract more
people (0_0)

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "zhusanna" wrote:
> Just wanted to let everyone know that even though the publisher's
> website still lists this as out of stock until 10/15, I got mine
> yesterday at my local Barnes & Noble.
>
>
> --Wanda

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#2569 [2005-10-02 19:37:20]

RE: [SHQ] Re: Hillsborough book in stores

by shimazuryu

I think it was "Shinsengumi: Shogun's Most Dreaded Samurai Corps"...but
ultimately it amounts to the same thing.

-M.

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#2570 [2005-10-04 09:52:22]

Re: [SHQ] Re: Hillsborough book in stores

by niwashi_1

The title changed from "Shogun's Most Dreaded Samurai Corps: The Bloody
Legacy Of The Shinsengumi" to "Shinsengumi: The Shogun's Last Samurai
Corps". (I guess either someone thought the original title was too long,
too negative sounding, or else the Shinsengumi have become well enough known
recently that the publishers wanted the group's name more prominent in the
title. Perhaps all three.)

I got my copy yesterday and have read a few bits and pieces of it so far.
It's quite good and has a lot of information in it. It also has a lot of
the author's opinions, but the distinction between what's fact and what's
biased opinion seems to be fairly clear for the most part. It seems
well-written and very readable. Anyway, I'm so glad it finally came out and
we finally have a source in English for a lot of this history.

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#2571 [2005-10-04 15:22:29]

Re: [SHQ] Re: Hillsborough book in stores

by onigiribeanie

Hm. Haven't had a chance to read it fully, but in skimming it noticed a few interesting things.


First - a map of Kyoto interior. (Finally we have a location for Mibu village with other key patrol areas marked.)

The list of references are provided in two different ways. First a straight list and then organized by book chapters (so you can see where particular statements are taken from). There seems to be a heavy dependence on a few works in his narratives. (He also cites himself I believe at least twice, which I have some issues with:) ) I think there also isn't really an attempt on his part to evaluate the sources he cites from.

Photos: Really there are only four. The images of Kondo and Hijikata have all appeared frequently on the web. Kondo's jacket/haori with the skull is also included. There is one banner from the Hijikata museum that graces the back cover. As for the woodblock cover, still can't figure out where it comes from, although it appears to have been provided by Kojima Masataka of the Kojima Museum (http://www.ceres.dti.ne.jp/~kojishir/) .
(It appears to be Satsuma clan based on their headdresses vs. Bakufu.)

As for the role of the Shinisengumi in the deaths of Ito, Takeda and Yamanami, I am not sure that fans of the taiga or anime depictions will like what is presented here. It certainly isn't the noble version of history that the taiga tries to portray.

S

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#2573 [2005-10-05 19:41:45]

Re: Hillsborough book in stores (Reviewed)

by secretarytocapt3

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Niwashi" wrote:
> The title changed from "Shogun's Most Dreaded Samurai Corps: The
Bloody Legacy Of The Shinsengumi" to "Shinsengumi: The Shogun's Last
Samurai Corps".

(Review)

The reason why history is so "dull" to many is that the disciplined
historian attempts to record and organize information in a straight
forward manner. He or she strives to provide this valuable service
without letting personal bias interfere with the goal.

Romulus Hillsborough, lived in Japan for 15 years and is fluent in
Japanese. So I'm in no position to criticize him as I can't compare
his sources with his interpretations. He took on the difficult task
of writing the first book on the Shinsengumi in English. However he
makes no attempt at adopting a dispassionate tone needed in dealing
with this "legal terrorist organization" (121).

Besides the constant sarcasm he uses the term "propensity to kill"
***atleast over 30 times in the narrative (I stopped counting).
Hillsborough makes no attempt to add variation to his stock phrase
"Okita the genius swordsman". He even attempts poetry or add flare to
his prose with the mentioned phrase "propensity to kill". You see,
this is why the original title contained the words "bloody legacy". I
think most of us will agree that because we are STUDYING A CIVIL
[WAR], no one was using rubber bullets nor bamboo swords. I've never
heard of a bloodless war. Atleast he mentions in passing the
loyalists who also had a "propensity to kill". Almost forgot to
mention Kondou and Hijkata's irrepressible "will to power" (read that
phrase 20 times). I did not think his constant use of the "sun
goddess" in her intervention of state affairs was a good idea. He
wanted the goddess to represent "fate" and she had her darlings on the
loyalist side.

After completing the book I began to wonder if this Shinsengumi book
was simply written to bolster his previous works on his personal heroes.

To this author the people of Kyoto loved the loyalists with all their
heart. I am kicking myself for not recording the book which mentions
that a folk song was written and sung in praise (not by professionals
but peasants) of the Protector of Kyoto. It may be common sense to us
that many people in the city just wanted to live in peace and could
care less for the politics (either for the bakufu or the Imperialists).

His bibliography is very limited. He used one of Akama's books and
entirely ignores perhaps her most famous work on Saitou Hajime, which
is one of most often cited books on Japanese sites. Hence, in the few
sentences on Saitou Hajime's life in the Meiji he is said to have
wandered southwest to the Takada Han for a while and then moved to
Tokyo and married a daughter of a retainer from Aizu.

In many stories there is ofcourse more than one version. Many
Japanese sites are able to discuss and post information. For example
the death of Takeda may have been attributed to a stroke or by
Saitou's hand. Hillsborough has a few footnotes but he should've used
them to more effectively to give a different take on stories.

He should be credited for introducing the story of Kondou's daughter
Oyu (born to his mistres Otaka sister of Miyuki) to the western world.
Prior to reading this book I did read a ***fanfic*** translated via
nifty which portrays Fujita Goro as helping the daughter of Kondou.
According to Hillsborough a policeman formerly affiliated with the
Shinsengumi attempted to save Kondou's daughter from life in the
red-light district.

Otherwise the book provides an ok introduction to the era and details
we never had before. The limited bibliography may help a serious
scholar in the future start his or her work. If anyone has the money
please consider donating a hard cover copy to your local library.

This book proves again that such a subject needs to be studied as a
group in teams from different perspectives.
Mr. Hillsborough would've also benefited GREATLY from the
knowledgeable and open minded Japanese fans. Amongst those cosplayers
and great collectors of Shinsengumi doujinshi are critical thinkers.
He should've atleast interviewed the authors of some of the recent books.

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#2576 [2005-10-06 21:22:46]

RE: [SHQ] Re: Hillsborough book in stores (Reviewed)

by shimazuryu

>I am kicking myself for not recording the book which mentions
>that a folk song was written and sung in praise (not by professionals
>but peasants) of the Protector of Kyoto.

The song appears in the film "Byakkotai," and goes like this:

"Aizu Higo-sama Kyoto Shugoshoku tsutomemasu. Dairi hanjou de kuge andou.
Tokoyononaka you ga ishou"

It was written shortly after Aizu kicked Choshu out of Kyoto, and it means
"Lord Aizu Higo (no Kami) is the Protector of Kyoto. The Palace is safe, the
nobles are unharmed. Peace and order have returned to the world."

---
(Commentary)

For the record, though I've only read part of "Samurai Sketches," I have
never trusted Romulus Hillsborough-- a man who, despite having never been
trained in critical historical analysis, has the pretense to write "history"
books which, like your review said, are essentially in support of his own
heroes. I have less of a problem with him than with Stephen Turnbull,
though-- a man who, though trained as an historian, writes books (including
a whole chapter in one of them about Aizu) with GAPING inaccuracies.

As I am currently working on a full-length (50 or so pages) paper about the
Aizu domain in teh Bakumatsu period (including Shinsengumi), I feel the need
to point out some things that I have noticed.

Hillsborough is essentially of the Marius Jansen school-- the school of
thought which says "Aizu=Tokugawa partisans to the end, end of story." The
fact of the matter is that Aizu was the only domain bound in writing to obey
the Shogunate to the last, but that even so, the internal dissent against
going to Kyoto was so extreme that Saigo Tanomo and Tanaka Tosa, two of the
senior councilors, went all the way to Edo to beg Katamori to reject it. But
men like Matsudaira Shungaku (this is mentioned in Conrad Totman's book
"Collapse of the Tokugawa Bakufu") basically gave Katamori a guilt trip,
saying that the Aizu founder Hoshina Masayuki would have taken the job in a
heartbeat. Katamori, being adopted, must have felt guilty, so knowing full
well the impact it would have on his domain's peasants, but also knowing
full well that he had his hands tied in every way imaginable, went to Kyoto.
In the Boshin War, Katamori had long since given up on Yoshinobu, and he and
Enomoto Takeaki, far from wanting to reinstate the Shogun, kept begging for
mercy and making proposals for peaceful settlements (this is mentioned in
the book "Young Japan"). Katsu Kaishu was also working hard for a peaceful,
generous settlement for the Tokugawa-- but as in Kyoto with the 'extreme'
Choshu faction that was attacked by Shinsengumi at Ikedaya-- in Edo, the
Shogitai-- the REAL "Tokugawa Partisans"-- who I would go so far as to
describe as "rabid" partisans-- attacked the forces of the new government
and thus dashed any hopes for peace.

The Northern Alliance (Oetsu Reppan Domei) is also seen by the Jansen school
as being "pro-Tokugawa," when in fact most of its members were "outer"
(tozama) lords, with only a handful of Tokugawa vassal (fudai) domains and a
couple of Tokugawa-branch domains, probably only Aizu and Moriyama or Miharu
(not sure which one). Their intentions? As stated in their statement to the
foreign powers, "We will destroy the offenders (Satsuma/Choshu). Those who
fly before us we shall not pursue; but we will reconquer Japan, that the
Emperor may indeed reign over it." (from "Young Japan") Thus, it wasn't a
matter of Shogun vs. Emperor, it was a matter of a grudge that Choshu had
against Aizu for sponsoring the anti-Choshu expeditions and fighting against
the Choshu "activists" in Kyoto. Hence the reason why Katamori begged for
mercy but was not heard-- he was operating under the assumption that what
was going on concerned the Emperor, when in fact it was simply between him
and Choshu, and with Choshu surrounding the Emperor (as Aizu had done
before),�@there would be no answer to his pleas.

Neither was Rinnoji no Miya, the Imperial prince who led the Northern
Alliance, a "second Emperor" like the Northern and Southern Courts
(Nanbokucho) era. Though the Northern Alliance adopted a new reign name
(Taisei instead of Meiji), Rinnoji no Miya was never referred to as
"tenno"-- "Emperor," though he did take the name of Tobu.

Yes, there was extortion and forcible appropriation on both sides. This too
deserves to be studied more closely in order for both sides to be studied
properly. The actions of the Shogitai are particularly unfortunate, in my
opinion.

However, what amazes me is that even when Enomoto was in Hokkaido he still
practically begged for mercy and a peaceful settlement, saying "We pray that
this portion of the Empire (Hokkaido) may be conferred upon our former
master, Tokugawa Kamenosuke (Yoshinobu's adopted son and successor), and in
that case, we shall repay your benificence by our faithful guardianship of
the northern gate." ("Young Japan," page 241) Naturally, however, having
endured the campaigns in Echigo, Aizu, and Mutsu/Dewa, and the unfortunate
episode of the Shogitai, the new government was in no disposition to listen
to such a request, and moved to attack Hokkaido.

The bottom line is, in the words of General William Tecumseh Sherman, that
"war is Hell."

-M.

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#2577 [2005-10-07 14:21:45]

Re: finding a few fanfics and info ^_^

by shenlong71328

--- secretary <secretarytocapt3@...> wrote:
He should be credited for introducing the story of
Kondou's daughter Oyu (born to his mistres Otaka
sister of Miyuki) to the western world. Prior to
reading this book I did read a ***fanfic*** translated
via nifty which portrays Fujita Goro as helping the
daughter of Kondou. According to Hillsborough a
policeman formerly affiliated with the Shinsengumi
attempted to save Kondou's daughter from life in the
red-light district.

***
Ok... I'm fairly new and am well aware that theres a
TON of info I don't know about the Shinsengumi, and
this was just another thing that I've never ran
accross while going through various webpages. I
think I read a long time ago that Kondou was married
sometime before he left to Kyoto (as Roshigumi) and a
daughter was born shortly after he left, and
appearently he never meet his daughter even when he
returned to Edo to recruit more men. But know that I
read this, I wonder if what I read was even correct.

Anyways, I was wondering you by chance you still have
the link to that fanfic (sounds intresting). And
also, may I ask for the members on this mailing list
to help me find another fanfic that I can't find
anymore. The fic is a RK one, saddly I don't
remember the name of the piece or the author. The
few chapters that I read started pretty much a few
days before the Ikedaya, it dealed mostly of what the
Shinsengumi were doing. One chapter in particular
centered completely around Hijikata discoving a few
tradors amoung the ranks (4 men I think) and ordering
their deaths (when each man was by himself). After
being confronted by Hijikata himself, one of the men
is willing to commit seppuku and asks for Hijikata to
be his kaishaku. After the man split his belly open,
Hijikata picks up the short sword used by the man and
walks away, warning everyone that if they help the
man, they will suffer the same faith. He really was
depicted as a deamon in this part of the fic ...and
thats pretty much all I remember about the fic.

-Bunneh



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

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#2580 [2005-10-09 14:24:14]

Re: finding a few fanfics and info ^_^

by secretarytocapt3

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Bunny ^_^ wrote:
> Anyways, I was wondering you by chance you still have
> the link to that fanfic (sounds intresting).

***Generally fanfics/art etc are discussed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ_Spy_Division/

There are several Japanese sites which discuss history, fanfic and
post fanart.

insert these sites into http://www.nifty.com/globalgate
[rated G fanfics, mostly comedies, all cute]
http://shinneitai.com/html/ahome.htm
***she loves history and Jo Odagiri***

Not all fanfic are 100% Shinsengumi. ONe which I recently read has
Fujita Tsuyoshi (Tokio+Goro's 2nd son) as the main character.
Somehow he ends up in England and meets Queen Victoria who was
sharing her bed with Hijikata.

For people who dislike alternate pairings, think about this one.
Fujita Goro x Okubo.
Nifty translates some things very well like "you are my doll" and
Okubo running his hands through Goro's hair etc etc etc
I believe the author justified it due to Okubo and his connection to
the whole Itou affair business. I didn't bother to note the link
address --- as you surf using nifty you will find that it is
extremely difficult to grab the original webaddress.

some of these may be rated R in nature:
[PMK Fanart]
http://2style.jp/miyura/pict-t.html
[Kaze Hikaru Saitou Fansite] (I think)
http://libra.sunnyday.jp/hajime/
[Saitou + Chou]
http://schwarzkatze929.fc2web.com/top.htm
[Saitou + Aoshi] (WOW!)
http://dada.lovesick.jp/top.html
[Questionable]
http://www.geocities.co.jp/AnimeComic-Ink/3011/toptop.htm
[blatant yaoi]
http://www.r-grey.info/gallery/index.html
---------------------
Updated
http://www.shinsengumihq.com/Ishin-1.htm
scroll to the bottom to read excerpts from an essay by a respected
scholar Marius Jansen
---------------------
Charity
I am offering my once viewed copy of SHINSENGUMI 1958
you can see the cover on this page
http://www.ninjadojo.com/ninjadojo.htm (click on cover to go to the
merchant's page---all Ebay copies were ripped from
http://www.kurotokagi.com/)
it is an average film but strangely it combines events together such
as the defection of "Seki" (Itou) and Todo with Ikedaya!
Todo commits seppuku right outside of Ikedaya (@_@)
The initial moments of the raid on Ikedaya were well directed and
Hijikata's dance to intimidate "Seki"(Itou) was beautiful. It also
showed Serizawa (he has a totally different name) trying to prove
whether or not the tiger on display was for real.

please email me at secretarytocapt3(a)hotmail.com with your bid.
I am taking bids until this Wednesday.

the highester bidder/winner does [not] pay me----you donate the
amount to http://www.redcross.org/ or http://www.unicef.org/ and
forward the receipt to me. Please add $2.50 for shipping costs.

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