Shinsengumi uniforms

Hey, all. I was just wondering if anyone knew what the different
colors of the Shinsengumi uniform meant? I know that there's the
standard blue one, but I've also seen a black one and a white one.

In a message dated 2/2/2005 7:28:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
alexander_ashcroft@... writes:
Hey, all. I was just wondering if anyone knew what the different
colors of the Shinsengumi uniform meant? I know that there's the
standard blue one, but I've also seen a black one and a white one.
As far as the black ones go, I think that's just dramatic effect for movies.
Gohatto and Mibu Gishi-Den both have them in black, but that wasn't a real
uniform. People in the film industry seem to think the real blue and white
uniforms aren't eye-catching enough, which is all they're worried about.

The standard blue and white uniform is a copy of the uniform of the 47 ronin,
whom the Shinsengumi admired. It had the exact same strips on the sleeves and
hem, but the color of their uniform was black (I think). The white strips are
supposed to allow for easy recognition of an ally during a sword fight, when
thing could get pretty hectic. "In a real sword fight you don't have time to
think," as Saito Hajime put it. The light blue color was supposed to be the
color that shows a samurai's resolve.

As far as the white one with the black triangles on the sleeves, that was
supposed to be the uniform of the leader of the group. (Or leaders. Shinsengumi
Keppuroku and the NHK Shinsengumi drama both have only Kondo wearing it, but
Hijikata is wearing this version in PMK as well.) So basically it was a reversal
of the colors the 47 ronin wore.

-MissB


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>The standard blue and white uniform is a copy of the uniform of the 47
>ronin,

No it's not...it's a copy of the *kabuki* representation of the uniform. In
reality, from everything I've turned up so far, the 47 ronin barely wore any
more than their street clothes and chain mail.

--M.

Sorry M. I knew that. Just wasn't going to get technical about the 47 ronin
outfit is all.

-MissB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "alexander_ashcroft"
wrote:

>
>
> Hey, all. I was just wondering if anyone knew what the different
> colors of the Shinsengumi uniform meant? I know that there's the
> standard blue one, but I've also seen a black one and a white one.

Now, the real Shinsengumi uniform does not remain.
Blue haori which we look at with an image is the clothes which
researchers produced based on testimony of people of those days.
Therefore, nobody knows whether really the Shinsengumi uniform was
that form.

Incidentally that haori was made of hempen cloth.
A hempen kimono is a kimono for summer.
I think that it is from June to September that they wore that haori.
Members stopped wearing it after Ikedaya.
(In fact, it is about one year that they wore that haori, after
forming Shinsengumi.)
When Itou Kashotarou who wears haori of silk crape joined
Shinsengumi, the haori did not already exist^_^

Their uniform after a blue haori is stopped is not known well.
At testimony of a certain Shishi, it seemed to be the black haori
and the black hakama.

momoiro-usagi

Hello,
I read on this page
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/stanford/130/bio2.html
about the possible yellow version of the uniform which is due to Aizu.
NHK shows the Shinsengumi working for Aizu.

In the film BYAKKOTAI (which shows the Shinsengumi and Aizu)
http://www.shinsengumihq.com/film.htm
The uniform is off-white with blue triangles. BUT, the off-white is
actually yellow!

Before the restoration, Japanese dyes were really light colored.
So I was thinking if the Shinsengumi haori was yellow "asagi,"
wouldn't it make sense that it'd be done with cheaper, indigenous
material, and NOT be the BRIGHT Yellow we think of when we think
"yellow"? Because it would be expensive to make alot uniforms a
bright color.

So I think the pre-restoration idea of yellow is not the same as OUR
modern idea of yellow.

I go with the light yellow with blue triangles theory.

Hi. That makes sense to me. And I remember reading an interview with some man
who's great-grandfather I think it was had witnessed the Aizu war. He gets
some things wrong about the Shinsengumi (which would be understandable since he
probably has never really studied them from the way he talked), but he did
mention that this person had passed down that their uniforms were yellow.

-MissB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a repost of a thread Momoiro-san replied to. Apparently there's a possible black version as well.

As for yellow, remember that the names used to describe yellow and light blue on Serizawa's site are exactly the same, only the kanji is written differently.

From a Japanese book I have, it's mentioned the light blue came from the light blue color of the formal kamishimo attire.

---------------------
Now, the real Shinsengumi uniform does not remain.
Blue haori which we look at with an image is the clothes which
researchers produced based on testimony of people of those days.
Therefore, nobody knows whether really the Shinsengumi uniform was
that form.

Incidentally that haori was made of hempen cloth.
A hempen kimono is a kimono for summer.
I think that it is from June to September that they wore that haori.
Members stopped wearing it after Ikedaya.
(In fact, it is about one year that they wore that haori, after
forming Shinsengumi.)
When Itou Kashotarou who wears haori of silk crape joined
Shinsengumi, the haori did not already exist^_^

Their uniform after a blue haori is stopped is not known well.
At testimony of a certain Shishi, it seemed to be the black haori
and the black hakama.

momoiro-usagi

----- Original Message -----
From: Warg3791@...
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: [SHQ] Re: Shinsengumi uniforms


Hi. That makes sense to me. And I remember reading an interview with some man
who's great-grandfather I think it was had witnessed the Aizu war. He gets
some things wrong about the Shinsengumi (which would be understandable since he
probably has never really studied them from the way he talked), but he did
mention that this person had passed down that their uniforms were yellow.

-MissB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You know, all these different accounts about what color their uniform was
could (and keep in mind this is just a theory) mean that they were changing it
constantly in order to keep from being easily recognized on their patrols. In my
area the local law enforcement agencies frequently change the paint jobs of
their patrol cars for the exact same reason.

On another note, I ran across a reference which stated that the reason the
Shinsengumi uniform was blue was because this was the color that the 47 ronin
when committing seppuku?! (Sorry, I forgot to take down the url.) I am not
understanding this statement since I thought that samurai -always- wore white for
this, unless the act was spontaneously performed on the battlefield or
something.

-MissB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I thought the supposed color for the 47 ronin was black? (Although I think Masa might have pointed out that in reality they didn't have a uniform).

I think there's a explanation of the blue somewhere out there...I just need to find the link.

~Okita

----- Original Message -----
From: Warg3791@...
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 3:38 AM
Subject: Re: [SHQ] Re: Shinsengumi uniforms


You know, all these different accounts about what color their uniform was
could (and keep in mind this is just a theory) mean that they were changing it
constantly in order to keep from being easily recognized on their patrols. In my
area the local law enforcement agencies frequently change the paint jobs of
their patrol cars for the exact same reason.

On another note, I ran across a reference which stated that the reason the
Shinsengumi uniform was blue was because this was the color that the 47 ronin
when committing seppuku?! (Sorry, I forgot to take down the url.) I am not
understanding this statement since I thought that samurai -always- wore white for
this, unless the act was spontaneously performed on the battlefield or
something.

-MissB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, they are usually depicted in black on the night of the raid. I mean that
this site was claiming that they wore a blue outfit on the day they were
forced to commit seppuku. I had never heard that story before and I thought that
samurai always wore white for that anyway?

-MissB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like not knowing how the uniforms came to be or what color it really was. It gives diffrent artist opptions on what they think looks good (although the blue haoi seems to be the most popular).

It's difficult to know what the true color was. That suggestion of them changing the haoi as time went on seems to be the most logical. When they first became the Roshigumi in Mibu, it was said that the only thing that kept them from becoming beggers were their swords (from the Serizawa page). Serizawa got some protection money to get the first haois made. As a new group, it's understandable that they didn't have the full financial backup to get themselves a uniform. From that, it seems like money was a factor in getting the uniform.

After the Ikedaya raid they pretty much became idols overnight and where recognized throughout the city. At this point, they were probably making enought to get the uniform that they had first wanted.

Mmm... well, thats what I think anyways... Momo-san's explaination of the colors being changed with the season is also worth taking into account. People back then used to wear cretain colors with in certain seasons (as best seen with geishas).

-Bunneh
^___________________________^;;


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The only blue I can think of was the blue kamishimo formal attire. As for white, I don't know when the tradition of wearing white was adopted in seppuku. Hmm....that does raise an interesting question though.

~Okita

----- Original Message -----
From: Warg3791@...
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [SHQ] Re: Shinsengumi uniforms


Yes, they are usually depicted in black on the night of the raid. I mean that
this site was claiming that they wore a blue outfit on the day they were
forced to commit seppuku. I had never heard that story before and I thought that
samurai always wore white for that anyway?

-MissB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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