Those info are what I can collect.
Ryoma studied in Chaba Sadakichi's dojo (Called also Ko-chiba "Little
Chiba" dojo)in Okeya-mach, and Sadakichi is the younger brother of
Shusaku. And famous sword woman Sanako Chiba, who was the fiance of
Ryoma was the oldest daughter of Sadakichi.
http://www.hpmix.com/home/seiunzi/E3.htm
Ryoma stayed in Chiba-dojo since 1856 to 58.
As for Yamanami, the only source which mention about his relationship
with Chiba-dojo is Nagakura's memoir.( If my memory is correct)
And according to Nagakura, Yamanami would be in Chiba Shusaku's dojo
(Genbukan or Oochiba "Big Chiba" dojo) in Otamagaike.
So, Ryoma and Yamanami are in different establishments. However there
would be some interchange between those dojo and it isn't completely
impossible even if they have ever met.
Toudou Heisuke would be also in Chiba-dojo before joining to Ito-Dojo.
(It's not either certain about him) But those three are all Hokushin
Itto school and they might have some relationship between those
establishments.
Tama
warg3791 wrote:
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> Sec, I do not see that file you said you uploaded on Chiba Dojo the
> other day. I do know that Hillsborough also says that Ryoma studied
> there under Chiba Sadakichi. He does not go beyond that to state what
> this Chiba's relationship was to Shusaku.
>
> This is where I get confused. You say that Sadakichi was Shusaku's
> brother? But I saw one website that listed him as his nephew. To make
> matters even more confusing, Hillsborough states that Sadakichi was
> the master of one of the "three greatest fencing schools in Edo" and
> Ryoma was the "head" of this school.
>
> The problem is that if you look up these two, Shusaku's Genbukan Dojo
> is listed as one of the "three greatest" in Edo. [The other two were
> Shunzo Momonoi's Shigakukan Dojo (Kyoshin Meichi Ryu) and Saito
> Yakuro's Renpeikan Dojo (Shindo Munen Ryu).] This might fit since
> Hillsborough calls the other two dojo by the names of the
> swordmasters rather than their official name. (He calls
> them "Momonoi" and "Saito" schools.) But then Ryoma, to be "head"
> of "Chiba Dojo" would have had to study under Shusaku rather than
> Sadakichi?!
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> Or were there, by Hillsborough's definition of the dojo names, two
> Chiba dojo in Edo at that time and he has it wrong which of them was
> considered to be "one of the three greatest"? And if so, then were
> did he get that Ryoma was "head" of the more important one? Did
> Sadakichi perhaps succeed Shusaku as master of the dojo?
>
> And what of the other two people he mentions as being the "heads" of
> the other two famous dojo at the time? Takechi Hanpeita of Tosa, he
> says, was "head" of "Momonoi Dojo" and Katsura Kogoro of Choshu
> was "head" of "Saito Dojo".
>
> Another curious thing, I note that on Serizawa's site it is stated
> that Yamanami studied at the Genbukan? So it becomes more likely then
> that Ryoma and Yamanami would have known each other?! Even if it -was-
> another school, they would have met each others students I would
> assume?
>
> -MissB (now completely lost somewhere out in left field)
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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