Aizu

In the footnotes to "Remembering Aizu," I found some things that I really
didn't think of before-- namely, that the Aizu domain took the job of
security in Kyoto so seriously that it FINANCIALLY RUINED ITSELF. Also that
Katamori was a far more aggressive figure than Yoshinobu, and that both
Choshuu expeditions are seen as Katamori's personal vendetta against
Choshuu-- which would explain the "Imperial" army's particular enmity at
Aizu. Also remember that Katamori's brother Tokugawa Yoshikatsu was the
nominal commander of the Choshuu expedition.

--M.

I'm NOT sure...but I think Aizu was part of the burning of the
SAtsuma mansion as well.

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Hirotada Tokugawa"
wrote:

> In the footnotes to "Remembering Aizu," I found some things that I

really

> didn't think of before-- namely, that the Aizu domain took the job

of

> security in Kyoto so seriously that it FINANCIALLY RUINED ITSELF.

Also that

> Katamori was a far more aggressive figure than Yoshinobu, and that

both

> Choshuu expeditions are seen as Katamori's personal vendetta

against

> Choshuu-- which would explain the "Imperial" army's particular

enmity at

> Aizu. Also remember that Katamori's brother Tokugawa Yoshikatsu was

the

> nominal commander of the Choshuu expedition.
>
> --M.

It's my understanding that Sagara Souzou (a Satsuma retainer and headquartered at the mansion with the Soumou Roushitai) burned down the Satsuma mansion to blame the bakufu before he & as many of his men as could reach the Satsuma warship escaped Edo. If M (or anyone else who can translate Japanese) will take a look at this site, maybe we can get some possible clarification: http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~oomi/tokusyu14.htm

phil
secretary <secretarytocapt3@...> wrote:

I'm NOT sure...but I think Aizu was part of the burning of the
SAtsuma mansion as well.

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Hirotada Tokugawa"
wrote:

> In the footnotes to "Remembering Aizu," I found some things that I

really

> didn't think of before-- namely, that the Aizu domain took the job

of

> security in Kyoto so seriously that it FINANCIALLY RUINED ITSELF.

Also that

> Katamori was a far more aggressive figure than Yoshinobu, and that

both

> Choshuu expeditions are seen as Katamori's personal vendetta

against

> Choshuu-- which would explain the "Imperial" army's particular

enmity at

> Aizu. Also remember that Katamori's brother Tokugawa Yoshikatsu was

the

> nominal commander of the Choshuu expedition.
>
> --M.

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Just remembered something else... the night Edo Castle was set on
fire (December 20th?, 1867), shots were fired at the Shonai mansion
in Edo... Shonai, of course, being close allies with Aizu. Both
incidents have been attributed to Sagara, but I don't know if anyone
knows for sure.

phil (who promises to go back resting in peace for a while)

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, spiritus saitou
wrote:

> It's my understanding that Sagara Souzou (a Satsuma retainer and

headquartered at the mansion with the Soumou Roushitai) burned down
the Satsuma mansion to blame the bakufu before he & as many of his
men as could reach the Satsuma warship escaped Edo. If M (or anyone
else who can translate Japanese) will take a look at this site, maybe
we can get some possible clarification:
http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~oomi/tokusyu14.htm

>
> phil
> secretary wrote:
>
> I'm NOT sure...but I think Aizu was part of the burning of the
> SAtsuma mansion as well.
>
> --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Hirotada Tokugawa"
> wrote:
> > In the footnotes to "Remembering Aizu," I found some things that

I

> really
> > didn't think of before-- namely, that the Aizu domain took the

job

> of
> > security in Kyoto so seriously that it FINANCIALLY RUINED ITSELF.
> Also that
> > Katamori was a far more aggressive figure than Yoshinobu, and

that

> both
> > Choshuu expeditions are seen as Katamori's personal vendetta
> against
> > Choshuu-- which would explain the "Imperial" army's particular
> enmity at
> > Aizu. Also remember that Katamori's brother Tokugawa Yoshikatsu

was

> the
> > nominal commander of the Choshuu expedition.
> >
> > --M.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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In a message dated 1/19/2005 8:30:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
spiritus_saitou@... writes:
Just remembered something else... the night Edo Castle was set on
fire (December 20th?, 1867), shots were fired at the Shonai mansion
in Edo... Shonai, of course, being close allies with Aizu. Both
incidents have been attributed to Sagara, but I don't know if anyone
knows for sure.

phil (who promises to go back resting in peace for a while)
It was the same night the "suspicious fire" broke out in Edo Castle and
destroyed the women's quarters. (Doesn't have the exact date listed here.) Someone
then fired a shot at the Edo villa of Shonai domain, a close shogunal ally.
The men of that domain gave chase and the assailants fled to Satsuma villa. It
was the enraged officials of Edo, ticked off from weeks of brigandage
attributed to the Satsuma-led ronin, who attacked and burned the Shimazu villa
(Satsuma's Lord's home) and killed several men.

This was all attributed to Saigo, via his orders to Sagara. Information from
Mark Ravina's The Last Samurai: the Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori.

-MissB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just thought I'd let everyone know that my fall research project--
"The Role of the Aizu Domain in Japan's Bakumatsu Period," (for when
I'm in Japan) has pretty much been approved (awaiting official
confirmation) and that I'll be sure to visit Kondou, Hijikata, and
Saitou's graves when I'm in Aizu. And of course, there will be lots
and lots and lots of pictures and other things!

Of course, this paper will include the Shinsengumi. They're important,
and they represent a greater movement on both sides of the war to open
up "warrior-hood" to people not born into the samurai class. After
all, the more I read, the more I realize they weren't operating
alone-- they were pretty much integrated into Aizu's fighting force in
Kyoto...

-M.

I was wondering, other than Masayoshi (and Phil?), how many of you on this list are doing targeted research on particular regions/hans during the end of the Edo era?

Also, for those of you who lurk -- what are you dying to get your hands on that you think other Shinsengumi fans on this list are interested in? I have insane cultural refs - like hairstyle books for the era, a 400 page book on wagashi, Kyoto historical landmarks refs, Shinsengumi manga galore, but no idea how to prioritize what to tackle next (other than what I must return to the library by such and such time) and then how to extract and distribute content.

Although, I am currently committed to finishing up some work on Katsura Kogoro's influences (yes, the 'other side') that might take me through the summer, I do have other things that I am willing to try to push along if any of you doing your own work can benefit extensively from it.

Also, I might as well just say that with Tama's help -- I managed to get copies of the Burai manga in duplicate. (As well as a few other lesser known Shinsengumi manga.) I would be more than happy to work with someone reliable and work and getting the contents scanned if someone is willing to do the raw translations. If any of you have any contacts or are very interested yourself, please let me know.

Thanks!
S
PS: Got the Watsuki shijitaki for the new Shinsengumi game. *dies* Okita rules!
PPS: I noted the LJ community disappeared? Any plans to officially throw in support for one of the other ones? Or to restart?

sherlgirl <sherlgirl@...> wrote:

>>PPS: I noted the LJ community disappeared? Any plans to officially throw in support for one of the other ones? Or to restart?<<

There was so little activity on the LJ that I chose to delete it, especially with Wolves of Mibu going fairly well (http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=wolves_of_mibu). Don't know about any kind of "official" support, but that's where I would send people looking for an LJ community on the Shinsengumi.

>>I was wondering, other than Masayoshi (and Phil?), how many of you on this list are doing targeted research on particular regions/hans during the end of the Edo era?<<

My research is now almost entirely focused on Sagara, subjects pertaining to him (sonno joi, kokugaku, waka, Tengu-toh, etc.), and areas important in his history (Mito, the area surrounding the Tosando/Nakasendo, sections of Edo, Akagi, etc.). While there are many connections to the Shinsengumi in terms of mutual memberships in groups and a lot of philosophical ideas, my research won't be reported here on the list since Sagara wasn't a miburo. *Always* in a state of correction, editing, and constant growth, it now spans over several journals pointing back to the main journal, http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/sagara_sozo .

>>Also, for those of you who lurk -- what are you dying to get your hands on that you think other Shinsengumi fans on this list are interested in?<<

Take advantage of people like this *any* chance you get! ^_^ It is absolutely amazing the things they can track down and find out! Without others offering to help me find out obscure things, my research would be so far behind what it is now. Thanks to them, I'm actually able to do much more on my own and coming to understand better who the people I'm interested in really were by learning about the environment they lived and fought in.

Don't be shy and don't be afraid... just let loose with those questions that have been nagging you, but you thought were stupid or meaningless or don't have a chance of being answered. You'd be surprised at how many answers really are out there once there are people happily digging away. And you just never know when someone else who's been lurking might've already found it! If it has to do with the late Tokugawa/bakumatsu, then it has relevance to the Shinsengumi. They surely didn't just sit around in a temple collecting paychecks, slash a few unknown/unimportant people at night, and do nothing else. ^_^ I think we've seen interest, too, in what became of those who survived to live on into the Meiji... men whose lives didn't just end when the glory days were over... as well as the families of those who didn't. It's all interconnected, and for those involved in fiction writing (fanfic or original), this list is a fantastic resource for information to help with plots and
atmosphere.

phil (who apologizes if the formatting is screwed up in this reply... sometimes the mailer does weird things I'm just not sure *how* it's going to turn out)


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Well I just had been bitten by the bug recently. Right now am lurking for the basic, first by Shisengumi and now am at lurking for Hijikata and Sauji.The first one well am been impress for what I had seen am not discarting checking out for his hometown and key places. Um, I was wondering what do you study?

sherlgirl <sherlgirl@...> wrote:I was wondering, other than Masayoshi (and Phil?), how many of you on this list are doing targeted research on particular regions/hans during the end of the Edo era?

Also, for those of you who lurk -- what are you dying to get your hands on that you think other Shinsengumi fans on this list are interested in? I have insane cultural refs - like hairstyle books for the era, a 400 page book on wagashi, Kyoto historical landmarks refs, Shinsengumi manga galore, but no idea how to prioritize what to tackle next (other than what I must return to the library by such and such time) and then how to extract and distribute content.

Although, I am currently committed to finishing up some work on Katsura Kogoro's influences (yes, the 'other side') that might take me through the summer, I do have other things that I am willing to try to push along if any of you doing your own work can benefit extensively from it.

Also, I might as well just say that with Tama's help -- I managed to get copies of the Burai manga in duplicate. (As well as a few other lesser known Shinsengumi manga.) I would be more than happy to work with someone reliable and work and getting the contents scanned if someone is willing to do the raw translations. If any of you have any contacts or are very interested yourself, please let me know.

Thanks!
S
PS: Got the Watsuki shijitaki for the new Shinsengumi game. *dies* Okita rules!
PPS: I noted the LJ community disappeared? Any plans to officially throw in support for one of the other ones? Or to restart?












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I'd like to comment on Katsura Kogoro's blog---I mean multi volume
diary, it contains valuable references to the destitute Aizu men in
Toko after Boshin. Yes, it's Katsura, yes he is on the "other side"
as Sherl put it (^_^) but the man is just fascinating and
compassionate and boy he can write. So when you guys do research
for fun -do not- expect to walk into the library and
find "Shinsengumi" instead look at the other sources. He also dealt
with Toshiyoshi Kawaji during Seinan.

I'm with M, I really enjoy studying Aizu (Byakkotai, Joushitai and
Aizu women in the Meiji in general like the awesome YAMAMOTO YAEKO +
Jo Neesima).

We don't know a whole lot about the Fujita family, except what is
written in Japanese however I'm very happy with what I have found in
their relationship to Aizu's Yamakawa family...so I research the
Yamakawa family (plenty of shreds of info in ENGLISH).
Don't know about Fujita Goro the man, but I have learned alot by
studying his -job- the history of the TMPD, Toshiyoshi Kawaji etc.
Same with Tokio, her job at Tokyo Women's Normal School aka (Women's
Normal School, Teacher's College for Women and sometimes footnoted
at Ochanomizu) is just amazing...she had to keep with the changing
times I use keynames like Takamine Hideo (her cousin), Tsuda Umeko
(her own school can be a -template- for how women's schools were
run), women's dorm life, alumni of Tokyo Women's normal school YASUI
TETSU (same generation as Fujita MIdori) who taught in Siam and
utitilized TWNS' model there too! So basically I'm happy to learn
about the "sphere" in which our beloved historical figures lived and
work.

I look up various keywords like "Yasui Bank" to learn about the
significance of Tokio opening a bank account...for example
http://www1.kinjo-
u.ac.jp/~nakata/Nakata/Data/Sectors/2Sector/EYasuda.htm

I believe that there are more hard records in Aizu about Tokio
because she retained a leadership role due to her past employment
with Teruhime and ofcourse she did collect money to build a memorial
for those killed in Aizu.

Also found some valuable stuff on two of Kondo's buddies back home
in Tama during the Bakumatsu and what they did in the Meiji (let's
just say the farmers of Tama weren't all that -simple-).

So Sherl, whatever you can dig up is appreciated.

On a side note, I love SCANDAL...the ROKUMEIKAN kind ::hehehe::
someone should totally write a fantasy Shinsengumi fanfic putting
them in the Deer Cry Pavilion. For the new people please see the
Meiji thread at shinsengumimb.com

At 05:49 PM 4/28/2005, zowye2002@... wrote:

>Well I just had been bitten by the bug recently. Right now am lurking for the basic, first by Shisengumi and now am at lurking for Hijikata and Sauji.The first one well am been impress for what I had seen am not discarting checking out for his hometown and key places. Um, I was wondering what do you study?

Oh. Thanks for asking :) . In terms of what I study -- I'd probably say I generally focus in on meta-issues like culture and politics.

My interest in the more political and historical side of Japan probably was fueled by a lot of Sec's posts here. :) Since Sec and others on this list have focused on the Shinsengumi and due to the availability of materials in English in various libraries, I elected to pursue materials on the Choshu han who was influential in shaping the Meiji era. I see this as a complementary approach to better understanding the environment that shaped much of the Bakumatsu.

In terms of research style, I tend to work from book to book and abstract things that I find randomly interesting or that I remember that others have a passion for. At the moment, I am still working on dealing with materials on Katsura Kogoro/Kido Koin-Takayoshi, although I became sidetracked by a biography on Yoshida Shoin, who was both a mentor to Katsura, as well as a personal headache to him. :-D

Unfortunately, I'm much slower than the others on this list in finding stuff and then in redistributing it. I have still yet to finish reading the diaries, but am posting various snippets of things I dig up at my website (http://red-bird.org). Sec recently added a link from the SHQ webpage for the curious. At the moment, I only have the beginnings of Katsura and Shoin stuff. (Hopefully *cough* I can goad someone into putting up the Takasugi materials in short order.)

In terms of your original interests - remind me to scan the covers and special images from the Pichi manga line featuring Hijikata and Souji . Aside from the history stuff, I have a not-so-secret weakness for manga and fanart. -_-;

S



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