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#2042 [2005-01-14 18:47:00]

Hijikata Questions

by warg3791

I have been pouring over my old notes and I need some clarification
of a few things it seems:

Does anyone know the proper name of the symbol on the side of that
medicine box he carried around? The translator called it "the
mountain in this circle".

What is the proper name of the medicine made by the Sato family? It
was for chest ailments and Toshizou sold it along with the Ishida
Sanyaku. Okita may have used this for his TB as well. The translator
calls it "Empty trouble powdered medicine" and "Empty labor powdered
medicine".

Tamejirou was the one who inspired Toshizou to write haiku?

WHO jumped into a flooded river with their kimono wrapped around the
head so they could go home? :D (www.tamahito.com)

There is a passage on www.toshizo.com that I am not sure I'm reading
correctly. It is saying something about him going off into a corner
alone to drink when everyone else was celebrating? Was this one
particular incident or was this common behavior for him?

Toshizou was thought to have been fond of plum blossoms? The passage
from www.toshizo.com says something about his haiku and that one is
carved on the tsuba of his sword is the reason people think this?

I noted that it appears Kiroku died in 1860? So then was the "older
brother" that took care of the dojo while they were in Kyoto Daisaku?
Or did someone else do this? And what is it trying to say about him
being the one to make the Shinsengumi's offical sign?

Another passage from www.toshizo.com that I'm not sure about... What
is it saying about Toshizou's temper? Something about when he was
angry (which was rare) he was "stormier" than Kondou and could not as
easily be calmed down again? But he was usually fairly level-headed
otherwise? Is this a correct interpretation?

What is it trying to say about him "taking plain food" in Hakodate?

Mizosoba (Gyukaku-sou) has some sort of stickers or thorns?

There is one passage that says something about Toshizou wearing a
hakama of "Sendaihira silk"? What is the big deal with this
specifically?

What is a "sogami hairdo"? I have no idea what the translator is
trying to say there...

What about the haiku listed in the PMK Vol 2 graphic novel? Are those
really his work or something that was made up for the manga? And the
rules they list? I've heard of two of them, but not those others. You
could be made to commit seppuku for talking about "ghosts and other
strange creatures"?! *Starts hiding all her books on the
supernatural.* Thinking back to his reaction on hearing people
thought Serizawa's ghost was returning, Toshizou must have -REALLY-
hated ghost stories! LOL

-MissB

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#2044 [2005-01-14 21:41:16]

Re: [SHQ] Hijikata Questions

by tamagot93

> Does anyone know the proper name of the symbol on the side of that
> medicine box he carried around? The translator called it "the
> mountain in this circle".

The "trademark" of Ishida Sanyaku, called "maru ni yama" by crest term.
Can be translated as "Mountain on the circle"(Seeing the form of the
crest the mountain is not "in" but "on" the circle).

> What is the proper name of the medicine made by the Sato family? It
> was for chest ailments and Toshizou sold it along with the Ishida
> Sanyaku. Okita may have used this for his TB as well. The translator
> calls it "Empty trouble powdered medicine" and "Empty labor powdered
> medicine".

Japanese name of that medicine called, "Kyorou-san" .

> Toshizou was thought to have been fond of plum blossoms? The passage
> from www.toshizo.com says something about his haiku and that one is
> carved on the tsuba of his sword is the reason people think this?
Toshizo composed many haiku about plum blossoms and he carved plum
flowers on the tsuba too, therefore we can guess the plum flower might
be his favorite flower.

> There is one passage that says something about Toshizou wearing a
> hakama of "Sendaihira silk"? What is the big deal with this
> specifically?
Sendai hira silk is the name of fine silk fabric with stripes on it.
http://www.crane-ny.co.jp/syouken/tenmansendaihira/temnamsendaihira.htm
It's used for the formal occasion today and you can see it frequently in
the different Jidai-geki costume films.
http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/shop/shinsengumi-s.htm

> What about the haiku listed in the PMK Vol 2 graphic novel? Are those
> really his work or something that was made up for the manga?
Those are all authentic Hijikata made haiku.

And the
> rules they list? I've heard of two of them, but not those others. You
> could be made to commit seppuku for talking about "ghosts and other
> strange creatures"?! *Starts hiding all her books on the
> supernatural.* Thinking back to his reaction on hearing people
> thought Serizawa's ghost was returning, Toshizou must have -REALLY-
> hated ghost stories! LOL

That rule is mentioned as annex to an item of "Gunchu Hatto"(rule under
the wartime) which said "You shouldn't do any comment about the force of
either our side or enemy side."(sorry for this is very badly translated
by me)
Unlike Kyokuchu Hatto which is supposed to be the invention of Kan
Shimozawa, this Gunchu Hatto is the real rule applied after Ikedaya, and
just before the Kinmon incident.
The reason of special mention about supernatural thing is unknown as far
as I know. ( The author of the manga "Burai" which is a kind of X-file
of Shinsengumi at the beginning, has an interesting reflection about
this, saying if they mentioned especially about that, because
"something" mysterious has happened...lol)


I'll look for the answer about other questions and if you would give the
url of exact pages which mentions about the Toshizo's temper etc, that
would help me more.

Tama

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#2047 [2005-01-15 03:28:56]

Re: [SHQ] Hijikata Questions

by warg3791

In a message dated 1/15/2005 12:41:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ktamae@... writes:
I'll look for the answer about other questions and if you would give the
url of exact pages which mentions about the Toshizo's temper etc, that
would help me more.

Tama
Thank you Tama! That's much appreciated!

I cannot seem to get an individual page url for the http://www.tamahito.com/
site for some reason. It's the last link on the bottom of the first page about
Hijikata that takes you to the page I was trying to decipher. The passage
about Tamejirou inspiring him to write haiku is right under the picture of the
bamboo plant. It's the same passage that talks about someone jumping into the
river.

Below that is the one that mentions Daisaku and seems to be saying something
about him making the Shinsengumi sign. I cannot find where I saw that one of
the brothers looked after the dojo now though. Must be a long-lost website.

The passage about Hijikata taking "plain food" at Hakodate is at the bottom
of the http://www.toshizo.com/name/toshizo.html page.

The passage that says something about him going off alone in a corner to
drink is on http://www.toshizo.com/name/tohito.html It appears to be the
testimony of a journalist of some sort? It's one of the longer notes.

I was wrong about where I saw the note about his temper. It's on this page:
http://www.h3.dion.ne.jp/~ash-gate/fukuchyo-2.htm I think it's some official
(possibly named Kato?) who was the one who made the comment.

And the mention of the "sogami hairdo" (I am still not sure if the translator
worded that properly) is on
http://g1342122.at.infoseek.co.jp/bakumatu-fubou.htm It's in the section on Hijikata and says something about him following
Kondou or something and what they were wearing I think? Cannot really make heads
or tails what that one is trying to say...

Here's a link to one of the pages on mizosoba I was looking at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/kumagaisan/flowers/mizosoba.html

It mentions the "splinter", but it has something else interesting too. It
says something at the end about the fruit of the plant? Are there two different
plants called "mizosoba"?

Thank you again for the help Tama!

-MissB


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#2050 [2005-01-15 10:35:35]

Re: [SHQ] Hijikata Questions

by tamagot93

Thanks for the url addresses.

> I cannot seem to get an individual page url for the
> http://www.tamahito.com/
> site for some reason. It's the last link on the bottom of the first
> page about
> Hijikata that takes you to the page I was trying to decipher. The passage
> about Tamejirou inspiring him to write haiku is right under the
> picture of the
> bamboo plant. It's the same passage that talks about someone jumping
> into the
> river.

Yes it's said that Tamejiro was a kind of dilettante who liked making
Haiku and Tanka very much and no doubt Toshizo's haiku hobby is the
influence of the older brother.

And one day on the way home from the brothel at Fuchu of Musashi, the
river Tama rose and Tamejiro should have stopped there.
But suddenly he took of his clothes to wrap them around his head, and
dove into the water. Then he swam using an overhand stroke and went back
to the riverbank of Ishida village like that.

> Below that is the one that mentions Daisaku and seems to be saying
> something
> about him making the Shinsengumi sign. I cannot find where I saw that
> one of
> the brothers looked after the dojo now though. Must be a long-lost
> website.

Daisaku who is adopted by Kasuya family, likes making poetry and excels
for the calligraphy. The great sign of the Shinsengumi HQ at Mibu might
be written by him.

> The passage about Hijikata taking "plain food" at Hakodate is at the
> bottom
> of the http://www.toshizo.com/name/toshizo.html page.
At Hakodate, Toshizo contented to take plain food and kept the women
away from him. (the link of the same line which gives the reflection
about the homosexuality and the practice of adoption is interesting too...)

> The passage that says something about him going off alone in a corner to
> drink is on http://www.toshizo.com/name/tohito.html It appears to be the
> testimony of a journalist of some sort? It's one of the longer notes.
This one is the testimony of Genichiro Kikuchi who has known the people
of Shieikan and who become a journalist in Meiji era.
But the part about Hijikata's attitude when the other are drinking is
the comment added by the web mistress it seems.( so the source is not
mentioned) and it's said that Toshizo often drinks alone leaning against
a pillar and only looks with smirk the other fellows making noises.

> I was wrong about where I saw the note about his temper. It's on this
> page:
> http://www.h3.dion.ne.jp/~ash-gate/fukuchyo-2.htm I think it's some
> official
> (possibly named Kato?) who was the one who made the comment.

This one is Hiroyuki Kato's testimony ( he was the professor of the
western study school of Bakufu) about Hijikata.
He said, Hijikata was a very calm man who keeps cool in the face of
trouble but once he got angry he went wilder than Kondo.
For Bakufu, Kondo was easier to deal with and Hijikata was difficult.

>
> And the mention of the "sogami hairdo" (I am still not sure if the
> translator
> worded that properly) is on
> http://g1342122.at.infoseek.co.jp/bakumatu-fubou.htm It's in the
> section on Hijikata and says something about him following
> Kondou or something and what they were wearing I think? Cannot really
> make heads
> or tails what that one is trying to say...
The link doesn't work but I think I figure out what they talk about.
"sogami hairdo" means (In correct Japanese) "Souhatsu" hairstyle.
We may wonder watching costume film of Bakumatsu, why some men
have shoved head and the other are not.( without Sakayaki, shoved
hairstyle)
Such a long hairstyle without shoving the front is called "souhatsu".
The photo of Kondo and many other have this hairstyle because souhatsu
has become "a la mode" in Bakumatsu period. That was a sort of
performance symbolizing they are so concerned by the future of Japan
that they haven't even the time to shove their head.
( can be compared little bit those hippie of 70's having long hair as
the symbol of defiance)

> Here's a link to one of the pages on mizosoba I was looking at:
> http://www.ne.jp/asahi/kumagaisan/flowers/mizosoba.html
>
> It mentions the "splinter", but it has something else interesting too. It
> says something at the end about the fruit of the plant? Are there two
> different
> plants called "mizosoba"?
>
Yes it's said Mizosoba has some sharp splinters at the stem.
The common name of mizosoba is come from mizo( gutter) and soba(
buckwheat). Because its fruit and leaf look like buckwheat and in the
time of famine, people cultivated this plant to make sobagaki( a kind of
gnocchi made by buckwheat) with the fruits.

I hope those answers make sense.

Tama

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#2051 [2005-01-15 10:54:36]

Re: [SHQ] Hijikata Questions

by tamagot93

As for the souhatsu hair style, I mean "shaven"instead of"shoved".
Silly me...

Tama

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#2052 [2005-01-15 11:13:26]

Re: [SHQ] Hijikata Questions

by warg3791

In a message dated 1/15/2005 1:56:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, ktamae@...
writes:
As for the souhatsu hair style, I mean "shaven"instead of"shoved".
Silly me...

Tama
LOL We understood you just fine Tama. No worse than my "sogami hairdo". (Why
the heck did the translator say that?!)

And thanks yet again for the help. It's really appreciated!

-MissB (Off to hide the rest of those books on ghosts...)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#2059 [2005-01-17 06:14:59]

Re: Re: Hijikata Questions

by serizawakamo

> Subject: Re: Hijikata Questions
>
> > Does anyone know the proper name of the symbol on
> the side of that
> > medicine box he carried around? The translator
> called it "the
> > mountain in this circle".
>
> The "trademark" of Ishida Sanyaku, called "maru ni
> yama" by crest term.
> Can be translated as "Mountain on the circle"(Seeing
> the form of the
> crest the mountain is not "in" but "on" the circle).


It is also very common to come across the term "kasa
ni marujirushi". I wonder if this is a formal term
like "maru ni yama".


=====
Serizawa Kamo

"I am the bone of my sword.
Steel is my body,and fire is my blood.
I have created over a thousand blades.
Unknown to Death.
Nor known to Life.
Have withstood pain to create many weapons.
Yet, those hands will never hold anyting.
So as I pray, unlimited blade works."

(Fate/Stay Night)




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