Possibly new photo?

Ok,this is not confirmed info at all, but I think putting this one could
rouse interest of many people here.

I found this info in a Shinsengumi related journal page of the person who
attended "Souji Ki"( Commemorative ceremony of Okita Souji's) of this year( the
20th June).

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/dreamtrain/shasho/jidaigeki/kaido.html

The author says that this ceremony was followed by a lecture about
Shinsengumi, given by a well known specialist. (who discovered Kai Shimada's journal)
Just before the lecture, there was introduction of some direct descendants of
Shinsengumi related person attending the ceremony and the lecture, like
posterity of Mitsu Okita, Hajime Saito, and Takeaki Enomoto.
At this time, Mr,Fujita( Goro Fujita's descendant indeed) said, "I found a
photo of Hajime, and I've given a copy of it to Shinjinbutsu Ourai Publisher(
famous publisher of many Shinsengumi books and organizer of the ceremony)."
Appearently, Mr.Fujita didn't give detailed info any more, however the author
of the journal wondering if it meant a new photo of Hajime Saitou, other than
that unique photo of him ever known.

Does it mean we could see an unknown photo of Saito soon?
We can wait for the sequel.

Ｔａｍａ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ktamae@... wrote:

>Ok,this is not confirmed info at all, but I think putting this one could
>rouse interest of many people here.
>

At this time, Mr,Fujita( Goro Fujita's descendant indeed) said, "I found a

>photo of Hajime, and I've given a copy of it to Shinjinbutsu Ourai Publisher(
>famous publisher of many Shinsengumi books and organizer of the ceremony)."
>Appearently, Mr.Fujita didn't give detailed info any more, however the author
>of the journal wondering if it meant a new photo of Hajime Saitou, other than
>that unique photo of him ever known.
>
>

*Scream* And if the Shinjinbutsu Ourai people do not publicly release
this photo--and soon--we must scrimp and save and dig deep into the
furniture cushions to send a delegate (preferably one of our manly sword
wielding members there to "convince" them to do so! LOL

*sigh* Imagine....a nice clear photo of our man Hajime in his TMPD
uniform would e ever so nice...or maybe a nice formal family pose in a
western suit...maybe there was another portrait taken with their son
when Tokio had hers done....

Tama please keep us posted--- maybe you will find out more when you go home.

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net

In a message dated 7/30/2004 7:58:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ktamae@... writes:

>Ok,this is not confirmed info at all, but I think putting this one could
>rouse interest of many people here.
>
>I found this info in a Shinsengumi related journal page of the person who
>attended "Souji Ki"( Commemorative ceremony of Okita Souji's) of this year( the
>20th June).
>
>http://www.ne.jp/asahi/dreamtrain/shasho/jidaigeki/kaido.html
>
>The author says that this ceremony was followed by a lecture about
>Shinsengumi, given by a well known specialist. (who discovered Kai Shimada's journal)
>Just before the lecture, there was introduction of some direct descendants of
>Shinsengumi related person attending the ceremony and the lecture, like
>posterity of Mitsu Okita, Hajime Saito, and Takeaki Enomoto.
>At this time, Mr,Fujita( Goro Fujita's descendant indeed) said, "I found a
>photo of Hajime, and I've given a copy of it to Shinjinbutsu Ourai Publisher(
>famous publisher of many Shinsengumi books and organizer of the ceremony)."
>Appearently, Mr.Fujita didn't give detailed info any more, however the author
>of the journal wondering if it meant a new photo of Hajime Saitou, other than
>that unique photo of him ever known.
>
>Does it mean we could see an unknown photo of Saito soon?
>We can wait for the sequel.
>
>Ｔａｍａ
>

GEEZ! I hope so! That would be fantastic! Hopefully this one will give us a clear view of his face too. Some of those old photos make it so hard to really tell what the person looked like.

Thanks for the news Tama! Keep us posted!

-MissBehavin

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, ktamae@a... wrote:

> Ok,this is not confirmed info at all, but I think putting this one

could

> rouse interest of many people here.
>
> I found this info in a Shinsengumi related journal page of the

person who

> attended "Souji Ki"( Commemorative ceremony of Okita Souji's) of

this year( the

> 20th June).
>
> http://www.ne.jp/asahi/dreamtrain/shasho/jidaigeki/kaido.html
>
> The author says that this ceremony was followed by a lecture about
> Shinsengumi, given by a well known specialist. (who discovered Kai

Shimada's journal)

> Just before the lecture, there was introduction of some direct

descendants of

> Shinsengumi related person attending the ceremony and the lecture,

like

> posterity of Mitsu Okita, Hajime Saito, and Takeaki Enomoto.
> At this time, Mr,Fujita( Goro Fujita's descendant indeed) said, "I

found a

> photo of Hajime, and I've given a copy of it to Shinjinbutsu Ourai

Publisher(

> famous publisher of many Shinsengumi books and organizer of the

ceremony)."

> Appearently, Mr.Fujita didn't give detailed info any more, however

the author

> of the journal wondering if it meant a new photo of Hajime Saitou,

other than

> that unique photo of him ever known.
>
> Does it mean we could see an unknown photo of Saito soon?
> We can wait for the sequel.
>
> ｣ﾔ｣皀�｣�

Tama!!!! Keep on top of it!!! I need to see that photo!!! I don't
care how much or if I have to scheme to get it!!!!

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, ktamae@a... wrote:

> Ok,this is not confirmed info at all, but I think putting this one

could

> rouse interest of many people here.
>
> I found this info in a Shinsengumi related journal page of the

person who

> attended "Souji Ki"( Commemorative ceremony of Okita Souji's) of

this year( the

> 20th June).
>
> http://www.ne.jp/asahi/dreamtrain/shasho/jidaigeki/kaido.html
>
> The author says that this ceremony was followed by a lecture about
> Shinsengumi, given by a well known specialist. (who discovered Kai

Shimada's journal)

> Just before the lecture, there was introduction of some direct

descendants of

> Shinsengumi related person attending the ceremony and the lecture,

like

> posterity of Mitsu Okita, Hajime Saito, and Takeaki Enomoto.
> At this time, Mr,Fujita( Goro Fujita's descendant indeed) said, "I

found a

> photo of Hajime, and I've given a copy of it to Shinjinbutsu Ourai

Publisher(

> famous publisher of many Shinsengumi books and organizer of the

ceremony)."

> Appearently, Mr.Fujita didn't give detailed info any more, however

the author

> of the journal wondering if it meant a new photo of Hajime Saitou,

other than

> that unique photo of him ever known.
>
> Does it mean we could see an unknown photo of Saito soon?
> We can wait for the sequel.
>
> ｣ﾔ｣皀�｣�

Seeing the information from Tama san, momoiro carried out such a
misapprehension.
"At last, does the Metropolitan Police Department exhibit secret
data?"
.......It was different though it was regrettable.

But this seems to be large discovery.
According to the information of the person who participated in this
lecture meeting, it is the photograph of the Fujita Gorou's second
son's marriage ceremony.
Since marriage of Fujita Gorou's second son (Tsuyoshi) is Taisho 3
(1914), Fujita Gorou is 71 years old.
Probably, I think that he will be the old man of sharp eyes.

Although some Fujita Gorou's photographs existed, they have burned
with the earthquake disaster etc.
It seems that the Metropolitan Police Department has his photograph
according to the rumor. However, it is a state secret and, generally
is not exhibited.
(There is the rumor. There is an opinion that he is related to
establishment of the public security division. Although the
Metropolitan Police Department has his detailed curriculum vitae, it
does not open to the public.)

Furthermore, the misapprehension of momoirom in the information from
Tama san. ^^;;;
Since it had written that the posterity of Enomoto Takeaki came to
the lecture meeting, I thought that Ishiguro Ken (The actor who is
performing Katsura Kogorou in the Taiga drama) came.
In practice, he is someone else. (momoiro no obakasan.)
The actor who is performing Katsura Kogorou in the Taiga drama is
Enomoto Takeaki's posterity. It is said that his mother's ancestor
is Enomoto Takeaki. When the cast of "Shinsengumi!" was decided, it
became news slightly among fans.

http://www.dokidoki.ne.jp/home2/quwatoro/bakumatu/enomoto.html
Enomoto Takeaki

http://www.ken-ishiguro.com/fr_main.html
Ishiguro Ken

Are they alike? ^^;;;



What was found by chance a while ago although the relation was the
talk which is not.

http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/lists/MPNames.html#T

Asteroid Shinsengumi is a registration number 5815. ^^

momoiro-usagi

momomanjyuu2004 wrote:

>
>(There is the rumor. There is an opinion that he is related to
>establishment of the public security division. Although the
>Metropolitan Police Department has his detailed curriculum vitae, it
>does not open to the public.)
>

So I wonder if the TMPD has any "fangirls" amongst their ranks. They
could see this information and report back....:-D

>The actor who is performing Katsura Kogorou in the Taiga drama is
>Enomoto Takeaki's posterity. It is said that his mother's ancestor
>is Enomoto Takeaki. When the cast of "Shinsengumi!" was decided, it
>became news slightly among fans.
>
>http://www.dokidoki.ne.jp/home2/quwatoro/bakumatu/enomoto.html
>Enomoto Takeaki
>
>http://www.ken-ishiguro.com/fr_main.html
>Ishiguro Ken
>
>Are they alike? ^^;;;
>

They are very much alike I think especially their eyes. very very similar.

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net

In a message dated 7/31/2004 11:08:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BarbaraSheridan <bsher213@...> writes:

>
>
>momomanjyuu2004 wrote:
>
>>
>>(There is the rumor. There is an opinion that he is related to
>>establishment of the public security division. Although the
>>Metropolitan Police Department has his detailed curriculum vitae, it
>>does not open to the public.)
>>
>So I wonder if the TMPD has any "fangirls" amongst their ranks.  They
>could see this information and report back....:-D
>
>>The actor who is performing Katsura Kogorou in the Taiga drama is
>>Enomoto Takeaki's posterity. It is said that his mother's ancestor
>>is Enomoto Takeaki. When the cast of "Shinsengumi!" was decided, it
>>became news slightly among fans.
>>
>>http://www.dokidoki.ne.jp/home2/quwatoro/bakumatu/enomoto.html
>>Enomoto Takeaki
>>
>>http://www.ken-ishiguro.com/fr_main.html
>>Ishiguro Ken
>>
>>Are they alike? ^^;;;
>>
>They are very much alike I think especially their eyes. very very similar.
>
>--
>Barbara Sheridan
>http://www.barbarasheridan.net

I wish we could do a side-by-side photo comparison with them in the exact same pose. They look very much alike to me as well.

-MissBehavin

> Although some Fujita Gorou's photographs existed, they have burned
> with the earthquake disaster etc.
> It seems that the Metropolitan Police Department has his photograph
> according to the rumor. However, it is a state secret and,

generally

> is not exhibited.
> (There is the rumor. There is an opinion that he is related to
> establishment of the public security division. Although the
> Metropolitan Police Department has his detailed curriculum vitae,

it

> does not open to the public.)

Hello Momoiro-san...

I am just confused as to why Fujita Gorou's photographs are top
secret? Even his curriculum vitae? So much information has already
come out in the open and it has been around 100 years, I do not see
the reason why the State would not release it. Sounds suspicious...

wounds

momomanjyuu2004 wrote:

> I thought that Ishiguro Ken (The actor who is
>performing Katsura Kogorou in the Taiga drama) came.
>In practice, he is someone else. (momoiro no obakasan.)
>The actor who is performing Katsura Kogorou in the Taiga drama is
>Enomoto Takeaki's posterity. It is said that his mother's ancestor
>is Enomoto Takeaki. When the cast of "Shinsengumi!" was decided, it
>became news slightly among fans.
>

Miss B suggested a a side by side comparision picture of Enomoto and
Ishiguro and I made one but the group photo section is unavailable jsut
now as soon as it works on my end I'll put it up.

>
>
>

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net

Momoiro always provides us with interesting details and rumors ^_^ she
is our secret agent in Japan!

I understand that it is just rumor and not confirmed fact.
Perhaps Public Security Division [originated] in 19th century Japan
and the division continued to change over time to meet the new needs
of the country. Maybe after WW2 during the occupation the division
had to redefine itself so that it could continue to exist.

Public Security Division perhaps *transformed* into Public Security
Investigation Agency (PSIA) officially "founded" in 1952? Just an
idea....

http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/PSIA/psia-01.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/japan/koancho.htm

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "momomanjyuu2004"
wrote:

> (There is the rumor. There is an opinion that he is related to
> establishment of the public security division. Although the
> Metropolitan Police Department has his detailed curriculum vitae, it
> does not open to the public.)

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "GBattista (hajimenokizu)"
wrote:

> Hello Momoiro-san...
>
> I am just confused as to why Fujita Gorou's photographs are top
> secret? Even his curriculum vitae? So much information has already
> come out in the open and it has been around 100 years, I do not

see

> the reason why the State would not release it. Sounds suspicious...
>
> wounds

Hello, wounds-san.

I also think that this talk is strange.^^;;
I think that this rumor is believed by people since there are many
mysteries about Saitou.



--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "secretary"
wrote:

> Momoiro always provides us with interesting details and rumors ^_^

she

> is our secret agent in Japan!
>
> I understand that it is just rumor and not confirmed fact.
> Perhaps Public Security Division [originated] in 19th century Japan
> and the division continued to change over time to meet the new

needs

> of the country. Maybe after WW2 during the occupation the division
> had to redefine itself so that it could continue to exist.
>
> Public Security Division perhaps *transformed* into Public Security
> Investigation Agency (PSIA) officially "founded" in 1952? Just an
> idea....
>
> http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/PSIA/psia-01.html
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/japan/koancho.htm

Surely, the public security division was inaugurated in 1952.
It seems that however, there was the same organization as it from
Kawaji Toshinaga time, and main members did not change also after
dissolving by GHQ.
(Probably, it will be better not to say unnecessary things, since I
am ignorant about this.)

Furthermore, although this is that even many Japanese have mistaken,
Kawaji's first name is not "Toshiyosi" but "Toshinaga".
I also got to know just recently.^^;;;

Saitou's posterity believed that his art-of-fencing style was Ittou-
ryuu.
However, Akama Shizuko sensei who is Saitou Hajime's researcher
announced that his style was Mugai-ryuu.
She said that she found it from the data of the police.
Probably, I think that there is a rumor from the episode.

There is a strange talk about Saitou's sword style.
Nagakura was teaching the art of fencing to one time which became
Meiji Era in the Tennenrishin-ryuu exercise hall which Kondou's
nephew inherited.
The student of the exercise hall has questioned Nagakura about
Saitou's style.
Nagakura's answer.
"Since I and Saitou-kun seldom talked, I do not know it."
Though association of Nagakura and Saitou is only the Shinsengumi
age, it is for five years.
Didn't Nagakura care about a strong swordsman's sword style like
himself? ^-^

momoiro-usagi

We always love to talk about Saitou's sword style...
I think that Nagakura did wonder of Saitou's sword style but perhaps
Saitou never answered "clearly" ^_^
Thank you for informing us that the name is Toshinaga...all books in
English follow the Japanese incorrect example Toshiyoshi...

I believe that many government organizations change names and labels
all countries since ancient times have similar ideas on
security...so I believe that during Toshinaga's time indeed Public
Security Division slowly became PSIA 100 years later.

> --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "secretary"
> wrote:
> > Momoiro always provides us with interesting details and rumors

^_^

> she
> > is our secret agent in Japan!
> >
> > I understand that it is just rumor and not confirmed fact.
> > Perhaps Public Security Division [originated] in 19th century

Japan

> > and the division continued to change over time to meet the new
> needs
> > of the country. Maybe after WW2 during the occupation the

division

> > had to redefine itself so that it could continue to exist.
> >
> > Public Security Division perhaps *transformed* into Public

Security

> > Investigation Agency (PSIA) officially "founded" in 1952? Just

an

> > idea....
> >
> > http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/PSIA/psia-01.html
> > http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/japan/koancho.htm
>
>
> Surely, the public security division was inaugurated in 1952.
> It seems that however, there was the same organization as it from
> Kawaji Toshinaga time, and main members did not change also after
> dissolving by GHQ.
> (Probably, it will be better not to say unnecessary things, since

I

> am ignorant about this.)
>
> Furthermore, although this is that even many Japanese have

mistaken,

> Kawaji's first name is not "Toshiyosi" but "Toshinaga".
> I also got to know just recently.^^;;;
>
> Saitou's posterity believed that his art-of-fencing style was

Ittou-

> ryuu.
> However, Akama Shizuko sensei who is Saitou Hajime's researcher
> announced that his style was Mugai-ryuu.
> She said that she found it from the data of the police.
> Probably, I think that there is a rumor from the episode.
>
> There is a strange talk about Saitou's sword style.
> Nagakura was teaching the art of fencing to one time which became
> Meiji Era in the Tennenrishin-ryuu exercise hall which Kondou's
> nephew inherited.
> The student of the exercise hall has questioned Nagakura about
> Saitou's style.
> Nagakura's answer.
> "Since I and Saitou-kun seldom talked, I do not know it."
> Though association of Nagakura and Saitou is only the Shinsengumi
> age, it is for five years.
> Didn't Nagakura care about a strong swordsman's sword style like
> himself? ^-^
>
> momoiro-usagi

> --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "momomanjyuu2004"
> wrote:
> > (There is the rumor. There is an opinion that he is related to
> > establishment of the public security division. Although the
> > Metropolitan Police Department has his detailed curriculum vitae,

it

> > does not open to the public.)

----------------------------------------------------------
--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "secretary"
wrote:

> I understand that it is just rumor and not confirmed fact.
> Perhaps Public Security Division [originated] in 19th century Japan
> and the division continued to change over time to meet the new needs
> of the country. Maybe after WW2 during the occupation the division
> had to redefine itself so that it could continue to exist.
>
> Public Security Division perhaps *transformed* into Public Security
> Investigation Agency (PSIA) officially "founded" in 1952? Just an
> idea....
>
> http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/PSIA/psia-01.html
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/japan/koancho.htm

----------------------------------------------------------

(I will not include the info in my write up...I'll just concentrate
on the more concrete stuff, concerning inspectors and working with
the royal family, since Fujita Goro's possible connection to the
Public Security Division is a rumor)

I have found references to the Public Security Division in the 19th
century but there role is never ever defined clearly...usually it
appears on organizational trees as a subsection of some other
division...

The most clear definition of the PSD comes from Ralph Rinalducci's
THE JAPANESE POLICE ESTABLISHMENT Tokyo: Obun Intereurope limited,
1972.

*very BORING book but gives details about the Imperial Guard the
structure of the IMperial Guard in modern times emulates the Meiji
structure

Again this book comes out of the 70s when many scholars flocked to
Japan to study the police system

I need to point out again that after the OCCUPATION the system
became "recentralized" and emulated the Meiji/Taisho model a couple
of labels changed but many things stayed the same

excerpt from "Police Law Enforcment Regulations" proclaimed 1954 and
revised continuously to this day ofcrouse

Article 38-4 the PUBLIC SAFETY section shall administer the following
duties 1 crime prevention, 2 public safety police 3 guarding and
patrolling 4 security in congested areas 5 traffic police

***directly under the Public SAfety category is the Public Security
Division and Foreign Affairs section (omitted)***

Article 38.6 The PUBLIC SECURITY DIVISION shall administer the
following affairs 1. security police (excluding cases involving
foreigners) 2 enforcement of security measures, excluding the
guarding of congested places 3 compilation of plans to cope with
emergencies and their execution to meet any contingency 4 affairs
other than those mentioned in the preceding items, not under the
jurisdiction of other sections

*so I guess the PSD is defined by saying that it does things other
sections do not handle....nice and clear (^_^)