OT (sort of) - Age in Japan

I have a question to ask our Japanese members... do you still figure age in Japan with a person being 1 year old at birth (unlike in the West, where you don't turn 1 until the first anniversary of your birth)?

Thanks!
phil


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This is a very important question because this is probably the reason
why some Japanese sites say Fujita Goro dies at age 72...when
1915-1844=71???
Blame the Chinese...they count the months in the womb...(sigh)

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, spiritus saitou wrote:
> I have a question to ask our Japanese members... do you still figure
age in Japan with a person being 1 year old at birth (unlike in the
West, where you don't turn 1 until the first anniversary of your birth)?
>
> Thanks!
> phil
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I have a question to ask our Japanese members... do you still figure age in

Japan with a person being 1 year old at birth (unlike in the West, where you
don't turn 1 until the first anniversary of your birth)?

No, we don't use this way of counting age,called "kazoedoshi"no longer.
If there is difference of the age for Saito or other persons, they had simply
mistaken, or probably confused with "kazoedoshi", mentioned in old record.

Tama




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you, Tama! Do you know when Japan stopped using kazoedoshi? Was it another tradition that ended with the Meiji Restoration?

phil

ktamae@... wrote:

>I have a question to ask our Japanese members... do you still figure age in

Japan with a person being 1 year old at birth (unlike in the West, where you
don't turn 1 until the first anniversary of your birth)?

No, we don't use this way of counting age,called "kazoedoshi"no longer.
If there is difference of the age for Saito or other persons, they had simply
mistaken, or probably confused with "kazoedoshi", mentioned in old record.

Tama




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










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--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, spiritus saitou
wrote:

> I have a question to ask our Japanese members... do you still

figure age in Japan with a person being 1 year old at birth (unlike
in the West, where you don't turn 1 until the first anniversary of
your birth)?


It is the talk of "Kazoedoshi". The custom does not exist now.
When I was a child, I heard the talk of the custom. And I regarded
it as very strange.
In old Japan, a child becomes 1 years old on the next day, after
being born. And a new year comes on January 1 and the child becomes
2 years old. After that, a child grows older on January 1 every
year. That is, all Japanese grew old on January 1.
(The child born at the end of December suffers troubles. He is born
and becomes 2 years old immediately.)

It is meaningless to tell old Japanese "happy birthday". They did
not regard the day as important.
Hijikata's birthday is on May 5. However, probably, he did not
celebrate the day.
As for Okita, record of a birthday does not remain.
Although Saitou probably celebrated the new year, he has not
celebrated the day as his birthday.

momoiro-usagi

>(The child born at the end of December suffers troubles. He is born
>and becomes 2 years old immediately.)

Like Tokugawa Ieyasu (the first Tokugawa shogun). He was born (I think)
December 24, 1543, which, by the kazoedoshi system, made him 2 years old in
a matter of days...

--M.

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And today we are so involved with problems children encounter when they are pressured too young. It is amazing how much difference there can be between a child who starts school at the youngest age possible for public school entrance and one who is at the other end of that range... and it is only a matter of months. It would be fascinating to see if being born at the end of the year and suddenly being considered 2 years old when you are only a month old caused problems as adults since they were age-mates with people, like Saitou, who would have been a full year older. We could start a new reason for people to be troublemakers... look to see when they were born. :-D

Thank you, momoiro-usagi, for the details! I love the psychology that follows things like this.

Hirotada Tokugawa <patriot014@...> wrote:

>(The child born at the end of December suffers troubles. He is born
>and becomes 2 years old immediately.)

Like Tokugawa Ieyasu (the first Tokugawa shogun). He was born (I think)
December 24, 1543, which, by the kazoedoshi system, made him 2 years old in
a matter of days...

--M.


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Phil and I also pondered another angle to Saitou...youngest (spoiled
rotten) son as well.

Now with the new info on ages its safe to say that in 19th century
Japan people could not say "Hajime! Start acting your age!"

secretarytocapt3
STILL singing "Aa Shinsengumi"

I have another question and I wonder if this is in Japanese culture
as well. If you reached a certain age 60...this is when you CAN
have a HUGE birthday party...but yes in general death days are more
important than birthdays.

>but yes in general death days are more
>important than birthdays.

Same with Roman culture, I hear.

--M.

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Actually, they could say that to Saitou since he is as old as the year (considering that ALL people followed kazoedoshi then... we westerners just would not understand why a 2 year-old wasn't as adept as *our* 2-year-old... which makes me wonder if that isn't part of some of the European erroneous thinking about other cultures being backward... I mean, sheesh, if you have ever been around a group of mothers with infants... "Well, my son can already eat meat" "Oh, really? Well my Jimmy can open pickle jars with his two teeth." Said infants really don't care and are busily making bubbles with drool. Know what I mean?)

It is the poor kids like (SHOOT... I forgot which shogun M mentioned... you know who I mean) who it really would not apply to. Imagine telling a month-old 2-year-old to "act your age!"? LOL I guess that is when shoe size would be more applicable. (as in "act your age, not your shoe size")

phil (who now wishes she knew Sagara's birthdate just to apply more armchair psychology to the already formidable psychology of being the baby of 5 and a daddy's boy... what Shirou wants, Shirou gets... "Need money to start a revolution, baby boy?")

secretary <secretarytocapt3@...> wrote:
Phil and I also pondered another angle to Saitou...youngest (spoiled
rotten) son as well.

Now with the new info on ages its safe to say that in 19th century
Japan people could not say "Hajime! Start acting your age!"

secretarytocapt3
STILL singing "Aa Shinsengumi"










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>(SHOOT... I forgot which shogun M mentioned... you know who I mean)

Ieyasu. :-)

--M.

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In a message dated 7/2/2004 1:33:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spiritus saitou <spiritus_saitou@...> writes:

>

>
>phil (who now wishes she knew Sagara's birthdate just to apply more armchair psychology to the already formidable psychology of being the baby of 5 and a daddy's boy... what Shirou wants, Shirou gets... "Need money to start a revolution, baby boy?")
>
>secretary <secretarytocapt3@...> wrote:
>Phil and I also pondered another angle to Saitou...youngest (spoiled
>rotten) son as well.

Hey Hijikata was the youngest as well I believe! I think you're definitely on to something there phil!

-MissBehavin (Thinks perhaps someone should have turned all these boys over the knee and spanked them at least once. Volunteers to go back in time and spank Hijikata.)