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Beware Shinsengumi grandpas!

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#1140 [2004-06-17 12:34:34]

Beware Shinsengumi grandpas!

by spiritus_saitou

Oh, how could I have forgotten this after SK's wonderful tale of Nagakura and the yakuza?

Babelfish translation of http://sara1.gotdns.com/~ark24/suzuki003.html (for those who can translate babelfish):

<>

According to momoiro, a thief entered the house and Suzuki (keeping in mind he's about 75 in 1911) drove him out by force. Too cool!

By the way, to get to the other two pages of this site, just substitute 1 and 2 for the 3 at the end of the above URL. As usual, babelfish garbles it badly. (and Yahoo is screwing with my fonts...)

phil


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[Next #1142]

#1142 [2004-06-17 14:14:22]

Re: Beware Shinsengumi grandpas!

by secretarytocapt3

hold it...demon circular kunisige...doesn't that sound like the name
of Saitou's sword too? Probably similar maker/model or same lineage
of makers?...imagine Shinsengumi captains Saitou "my sword is xxxx",
Miki "so's mine"...then they just go on and on about the history of
their swords

now with all these tales of Shinsengumi grandpas I imagine their
grandsons and granddaughters...at school saying things like
"my grandpa can kick your grandpa's *ss"

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, spiritus saitou
wrote:
(three tree Saburo demon circular Kunisige and Bizen Osafune —S had
fixed, "it can cut this sword well," that we made the demon circle
important, it was considerably the lively preparation of the red
sheath, it seems)

[Previous #1140] [Next #1145]

#1145 [2004-06-17 14:38:16]

Re: [SHQ] Re: Beware Shinsengumi grandpas!

by spiritus_saitou

secretary <secretarytocapt3@...> wrote:
>>hold it...demon circular kunisige...doesn't that sound like the name of Saitou's sword too?<<

:-D Looks like my plan worked. I purposely put in the babelfish translation even though it was worse than usual just so you'd bite on "demon circular." I wondered the same thing, but I couldn't remember if there was more to the name of Saitou's sword and I'm just not up to searching in past messages. I figured you'd know (or at least find it noteworthy).

>>?...imagine Shinsengumi captains Saitou "my sword is xxxx",
Miki "so's mine"...then they just go on and on about the history of their swords<<

While they both down plenty of sake, I'm sure. That could've been a riot (perhaps literally). ;-) Something else the site (and momoiro) mentioned was that Suzuki had a lifelong drinking problem.

>>now with all these tales of Shinsengumi grandpas I imagine their grandsons and granddaughters...at school saying things like "my grandpa can kick your grandpa's *ss"<<

And maybe that was good enough reason to stay away from each other. :-D Kids say the darnedest things, like giving away your hiding place. With what appears to be *seven* grandkids from Tsutomu alone (looking at the family tree M provided), maybe Saitou had good reason to be always on alert. :-D

We should start a grandpa file to keep all these stories... they're such a treat!

phil


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#1148 [2004-06-17 15:01:51]

Re: [SHQ] Re: Beware Shinsengumi grandpas!

by bsher213

>
>
>We should start a grandpa file to keep all these stories... they're such a treat!
>
>phil
>
>
Wonderful idea Phil! What to title the page--My Grandpa the Wolf

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net

[Previous #1145] [Next #1150]

#1150 [2004-06-17 15:12:26]

Re: [SHQ] Re: Beware Shinsengumi grandpas!

by spiritus_saitou

BarbaraSheridan <bsher213@...> wrote:
>>Wonderful idea Phil! What to title the page--My Grandpa the Wolf<<

With the subtitle, "Or who's sleeping in Grandma's bed"? (Sorry... just reminded me of Little Red Riding Hood). :-D

phil


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#1152 [2004-06-17 15:17:25]

Miki+Saitou's Sword/more Seinan War paintings

by secretarytocapt3

babelfish of Saitou's sword is Demon circular Kunisige Ikeda
Miki's sword is "three tree Saburo demon circular Kunisige"

hmmm...part of sword names include the name of the maker and where
it was made...I'm sure a certain resident sword enthusiast may try
to find out

I uploaded just a couple more paintings at
http://www.streamload.com/secretarytocapt3
folder Seinan+TMPD+FrenchPolice "seinan6"
password makoto

***if you download the images please note that some images are
really big so you have to use your scroll bar otherwise you may miss
something interesting

1) the depiction of bullets flying through the air....lines all over
the place (see file 2 in seinan6 collection)

2) Toshiyoshi Kawaji is labelled in group pics of important people
(I compared the name under his photograph w/ the folded arms and it
matches exactly with what is shown in the paintings)...I found him
in 3 paintings and (chuckle) the artist did a very realistic
rendition...I wonder if his relatives in Satsuma ever forgave him
for marching against his own people so to speak...I didn't bother to
scan these but believe me I was like -wow- he's in pics of banquets
and on the battlefield fighting

3) I would like to draw your attention to a painting (Zoom of an
earlier scan) showing a Satsuma samurai woman on the floor...the
gov. soldier had his knee on her chest...her naginata was flung
behind the soldier...he has rope to restrain her and in her right
hand is her wakizashi short sword.
In another pic you its kind of like "its a bird, its a plane, its
Saigo in the meteor!"...2 versions of this Saigo sighting similar to
the one M pointed out in the newspaper archive.
I also put in another pic with Saigo surrounded...next to him is a
worn out warrior woman leaning on her naginata

[Previous #1150] [Next #1154]

#1154 [2004-06-17 15:24:01]

RE: [SHQ] Miki+Saitou's Sword/more Seinan War paintings

by shimazuryu

For those who are interested, I have a collection of a series of Seinan War
prints, zipped and ready to be sent to anyone who wants. One in particular
is VERY powerful-- an image of a woman warrior on horseback, wielding a
naginata, although I have MANY other ones in the collection (20 or so...I
can't remember).

Anyway, those of you who want a copy, please email me.

--M.

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[Previous #1152] [Next #1155]

#1155 [2004-06-17 15:25:55]

RE: [SHQ] Miki+Saitou's Sword/more Seinan War paintings

by shimazuryu

>I uploaded just a couple more paintings at
>http://www.streamload.com/secretarytocapt3
>folder Seinan+TMPD+FrenchPolice "seinan6"
>password makoto

I don't see any "seinan6"....

--M.

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[Previous #1154] [Next #1156]

#1156 [2004-06-17 17:38:42]

Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword/more Seinan War paintings

by secretarytocapt3

sorry ^_^
its seinan5 6/17 I uploaded it today...

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Hirotada Tokugawa" wrote:
> >I uploaded just a couple more paintings at
> >http://www.streamload.com/secretarytocapt3
> >folder Seinan+TMPD+FrenchPolice "seinan6"
> >password makoto
>
> I don't see any "seinan6"....
>
> --M.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

[Previous #1155] [Next #1159]

#1159 [2004-06-17 18:18:45]

Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword

by secretarytocapt3

For people unfamiliar with the obsession over historical Saitou's sword
{please cut and paste...yahoo messes up long link/addresses)
http://p076.ezboard.com/fshinsengumiheadquartersfrm17.
showMessage?topicID=1.topic

[doing some guessing here...]
http://www4.ocn.ne.jp/~ikkaku/138saito.htm
"Ikeda Kijinnmaru Kunishige made on Tennna 2nd,70cm length"
says that kunishige/kunisige part of the sword's name is the in fact
the maker's name

https://www.topart.co.jp/cgi-local/cargo/goodsprev.cgi?gno=43379
ikeda seems to be the name of a place according to this site...and the
sword was made in Edo

*we all followed, with great interest, stories of Okita's sword...but
I also recall that Saitou's sword was also an "antique"...(sigh) just
can't find the right link...upon reviewing sites which sell
reproductions of Saitou's sword I noticed that the blade is quiet
straight compared to other Japanese swords I've seen on the
net...ofcourse each smith has a distinct style and stuff...but
straight edge perfect for those real life gatotsu-like thrusts

secretarytocapt3 still imagining that conversation Saitou and Miki
must have had about their swords possibly being of the same/similar
make and model or from the same smith...they would totally chat it up
and then Hijikata (clears throat)..."excuse me guys we're trying to
have a meeting here"
*and what kind of sword smith names his work "demon"...@_@
*modern parallel is probably guys obsessed with cars...

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "secretary" wrote:
> babelfish of Saitou's sword is Demon circular Kunisige Ikeda
> Miki's sword is "three tree Saburo demon circular Kunisige"

[Previous #1156] [Next #1160]

#1160 [2004-06-18 01:16:51]

Re: [SHQ] Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword

by okitasoji

Sec,
The actual blade in the site is pretty nice. Do you know if its currently in any museum?
During the later Edo period a lot of swords emerged that had very little curvature like Saitou's katana. I read on one Japanese site that the use of shinai had an influence on the decrease in curvature.

Do you by chance have a site that has the kanji for the maker's name on Miki's katana? I have a small hunch that the name has something to do with the way it was made.


----- Original Message -----
From: secretary
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:18 PM
Subject: [SHQ] Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword


For people unfamiliar with the obsession over historical Saitou's sword
{please cut and paste...yahoo messes up long link/addresses)
http://p076.ezboard.com/fshinsengumiheadquartersfrm17.
showMessage?topicID=1.topic

[doing some guessing here...]
http://www4.ocn.ne.jp/~ikkaku/138saito.htm
"Ikeda Kijinnmaru Kunishige made on Tennna 2nd,70cm length"
says that kunishige/kunisige part of the sword's name is the in fact
the maker's name

https://www.topart.co.jp/cgi-local/cargo/goodsprev.cgi?gno=43379
ikeda seems to be the name of a place according to this site...and the
sword was made in Edo

*we all followed, with great interest, stories of Okita's sword...but
I also recall that Saitou's sword was also an "antique"...(sigh) just
can't find the right link...upon reviewing sites which sell
reproductions of Saitou's sword I noticed that the blade is quiet
straight compared to other Japanese swords I've seen on the
net...ofcourse each smith has a distinct style and stuff...but
straight edge perfect for those real life gatotsu-like thrusts

secretarytocapt3 still imagining that conversation Saitou and Miki
must have had about their swords possibly being of the same/similar
make and model or from the same smith...they would totally chat it up
and then Hijikata (clears throat)..."excuse me guys we're trying to
have a meeting here"
*and what kind of sword smith names his work "demon"...@_@
*modern parallel is probably guys obsessed with cars...

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "secretary" wrote:
> babelfish of Saitou's sword is Demon circular Kunisige Ikeda
> Miki's sword is "three tree Saburo demon circular Kunisige"










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[Previous #1159] [Next #1162]

#1162 [2004-06-18 06:31:39]

Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword

by secretarytocapt3

You know I have no idea of that double for Saitou's actual sword is
in any museum...it appears on every Saitou related site (3-
hajime.com/1to5.net)

Phil, can you grab the kanji for the name of Miki's blade?

Hmmm I wonder since so many of the management level captains had
valuable weapons I'm sure they had "my sword is better than your
sword conversations" ^_^

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Okita Souji" wrote:
> Sec,
> The actual blade in the site is pretty nice. Do you know if its
currently in any museum?
> During the later Edo period a lot of swords emerged that had very
little curvature like Saitou's katana. I read on one Japanese site
that the use of shinai had an influence on the decrease in
curvature.
>
> Do you by chance have a site that has the kanji for the maker's
name on Miki's katana? I have a small hunch that the name has
something to do with the way it was made.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: secretary
> To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:18 PM
> Subject: [SHQ] Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword
>
>
> For people unfamiliar with the obsession over historical
Saitou's sword
> {please cut and paste...yahoo messes up long link/addresses)
> http://p076.ezboard.com/fshinsengumiheadquartersfrm17.
> showMessage?topicID=1.topic
>
> [doing some guessing here...]
> http://www4.ocn.ne.jp/~ikkaku/138saito.htm
> "Ikeda Kijinnmaru Kunishige made on Tennna 2nd,70cm length"
> says that kunishige/kunisige part of the sword's name is the in
fact
> the maker's name
>
> https://www.topart.co.jp/cgi-local/cargo/goodsprev.cgi?gno=43379
> ikeda seems to be the name of a place according to this
site...and the
> sword was made in Edo
>
> *we all followed, with great interest, stories of Okita's
sword...but
> I also recall that Saitou's sword was also an "antique"...(sigh)
just
> can't find the right link...upon reviewing sites which sell
> reproductions of Saitou's sword I noticed that the blade is quiet
> straight compared to other Japanese swords I've seen on the
> net...ofcourse each smith has a distinct style and stuff...but
> straight edge perfect for those real life gatotsu-like thrusts
>
> secretarytocapt3 still imagining that conversation Saitou and
Miki
> must have had about their swords possibly being of the
same/similar
> make and model or from the same smith...they would totally chat
it up
> and then Hijikata (clears throat)..."excuse me guys we're trying
to
> have a meeting here"
> *and what kind of sword smith names his work "demon"...@_@
> *modern parallel is probably guys obsessed with cars...
>
> --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "secretary"
wrote:
> > babelfish of Saitou's sword is Demon circular Kunisige Ikeda
> > Miki's sword is "three tree Saburo demon circular Kunisige"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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of Service.
>
>
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#1164 [2004-06-18 06:52:54]

Re: [SHQ] Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword

by okitasoji

Haha....i'm sure Kondo's and Okita's blades won in those instances.

You know, after thinking about it, some of the swords of the Shinsengumi members may have been destroyed after WWII when the occupational forces gathered all the weapons and melted them down.


----- Original Message -----
From: secretary
To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 6:31 AM
Subject: [SHQ] Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword


You know I have no idea of that double for Saitou's actual sword is
in any museum...it appears on every Saitou related site (3-
hajime.com/1to5.net)

Phil, can you grab the kanji for the name of Miki's blade?

Hmmm I wonder since so many of the management level captains had
valuable weapons I'm sure they had "my sword is better than your
sword conversations" ^_^

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Okita Souji" wrote:
> Sec,
> The actual blade in the site is pretty nice. Do you know if its
currently in any museum?
> During the later Edo period a lot of swords emerged that had very
little curvature like Saitou's katana. I read on one Japanese site
that the use of shinai had an influence on the decrease in
curvature.
>
> Do you by chance have a site that has the kanji for the maker's
name on Miki's katana? I have a small hunch that the name has
something to do with the way it was made.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: secretary
> To: SHQ@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:18 PM
> Subject: [SHQ] Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword
>
>
> For people unfamiliar with the obsession over historical
Saitou's sword
> {please cut and paste...yahoo messes up long link/addresses)
> http://p076.ezboard.com/fshinsengumiheadquartersfrm17.
> showMessage?topicID=1.topic
>
> [doing some guessing here...]
> http://www4.ocn.ne.jp/~ikkaku/138saito.htm
> "Ikeda Kijinnmaru Kunishige made on Tennna 2nd,70cm length"
> says that kunishige/kunisige part of the sword's name is the in
fact
> the maker's name
>
> https://www.topart.co.jp/cgi-local/cargo/goodsprev.cgi?gno=43379
> ikeda seems to be the name of a place according to this
site...and the
> sword was made in Edo
>
> *we all followed, with great interest, stories of Okita's
sword...but
> I also recall that Saitou's sword was also an "antique"...(sigh)
just
> can't find the right link...upon reviewing sites which sell
> reproductions of Saitou's sword I noticed that the blade is quiet
> straight compared to other Japanese swords I've seen on the
> net...ofcourse each smith has a distinct style and stuff...but
> straight edge perfect for those real life gatotsu-like thrusts
>
> secretarytocapt3 still imagining that conversation Saitou and
Miki
> must have had about their swords possibly being of the
same/similar
> make and model or from the same smith...they would totally chat
it up
> and then Hijikata (clears throat)..."excuse me guys we're trying
to
> have a meeting here"
> *and what kind of sword smith names his work "demon"...@_@
> *modern parallel is probably guys obsessed with cars...
>
> --- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "secretary"
wrote:
> > babelfish of Saitou's sword is Demon circular Kunisige Ikeda
> > Miki's sword is "three tree Saburo demon circular Kunisige"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHQ/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SHQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










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[Previous #1162] [Next #1166]

#1166 [2004-06-18 07:03:18]

Re: [SHQ] Miki+Saitou's Sword/more Seinan War paintings

by warg3791

In a message dated 6/17/2004 6:20:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
secretarytocapt3@... writes:
In another pic you its kind of like "its a bird, its a plane, its
Saigo in the meteor!"...2 versions of this Saigo sighting similar to
the one M pointed out in the newspaper archive.
The book I'm reading on Saigo has one of those pics in it. I don't know if
you've read this or not Sec. I know I told phil and Barb, but let me fill
everyone else in. The reason Saigo is being shown in the meteor is that on August 2,
1877 (while Saigo was still fighting in Satsuma) a meteor appeared in the
skies over Osaka. A newspaper called the Osaka nippo reported the next day that
if the "bright star" was viewed through a telescope one could see a portrait of
Saigo in full Imperial army uniform. Popular opinion being with Saigo at the
time, people took this at evidence he was already ascending to the stars and
"night after night people stood on their laundry-drying platforms to get a
better look at the celestial hero".

By the time the comet appeared over Tokyo it had become an object of
veneration. The term at the time for a comet was "hoki boshi", but this could also be
read as "rebellious star" in reference to the insurrection. People by this
time were climbing onto their roofs to get a better view and many wound up
getting hurt because the roof boards would collapse under all the weight.

There are supposed to be some prints of this star by a guy named Haneda that
show people unhappy with his leaving trying to drag the star back down with
ropes. Another print by Tsukioka Yonejiro shows the government trying to shoot
the star down with a millitary balloon!

There are some other prints Sec that are called "Saigo nehanzo" or nirvana
prints. Saigo is presented as an enlightened being (still in his uniform) who is
about to transcend this world. More "common" people from all walks of life
surround him, praying for him to remain. Even animals are shown grieving!
(Perhaps the most telling of these is the snake?)

Yet another type of Saigo print is the ones made after his defeat. They are
commonly called "kubi Jikken" or "inspection of heads" and show Yamagata and
Co. sitting around while the heads of the traitors are lined up before them. NO
such inspection ever took place however.

What these are all about is the fact that for a short time after his defeat,
Saigo's head went missing. The new government had begun a policy of not
displaying heads publicly because it was "an example of the cruelty of the old
regime". (So was anyone else unaware that it was the "evil old regime" that
displayed Kondo and Sagara's heads rather than the "good" new one?) The fact is that
they didn't really need the head. However they were frantic to find it because
of all the myth that had already sprung up around Saigo.

They had the body. They could prove that it was truly him. He was an
unusually tall man of nearly six feet and had a very distinctive scar on his right arm
from a youthful quarrel, so he was easy to identify. However they wanted the
head to lay the rumors and legends to rest along with him. Not only had he
already become something of a demigod while he was still alive, but there were
many who did not accept the reality of his death even WITH the head.

Rumors began to circulate that he was in either China or India preparing an
army to come back and seize control of Japan. These stories continued to pop up
every now and again. As late as 1891 people were claiming that Saigo was in
Russia (who was coming for a visit) and would return to Japan in the company
of Crown Prince Nikolai to start the new rebellion. When Saigo failed to appear
a constable named Tsuda Sanzo decided this was evidence of foul play and
attacked the crown prince!

Legend tells of Saigo's fall and the finding of his head in this way:

When they rushed down the hill Saigo was struck in the hip by a bullet and
fell. He supposedly composed himself and prepared to die. He asked his friend
Beppu to be his second (the actual conversation gets VERY long according to the
source), then faced east and the Imperial Palace. In prints he's shown
thrusting a sword into his abdomen just before Beppu cuts his head off. The head is
given to Saigo's manservant Kichizaemon, who flees with it and tries to hide it
from the Imperial army by burying at the gate of a private home. (The
manservants name changes from tale to tale, as does the home where he did this.)

The next part of the myth is the presentation of the head to Yamagata. I've
already mentioned that no such scene as the one depicted in the prints ever
occured. The "historical" version that is usually given is that a man named Maeda
Tsunemitsu (again, there is a question of WHO actually found the head, but
this name is the most likely) brought the head to Yamagata. The general of the
Imperial army treats it with great respect, washing it and praising his
"glorious death". He recollects how they fought together during the Revolution and
weeps for his fallen comrade.

The reality is this: According to the autopsy done on Saigo's body, he could
not have sat there calmly or make a big speech. He was most likely in shock at
the time and a shattered hip would have made it impossible to do what he does
in the story. Furthermore, there were no sword wounds of any sort on his
abdomen. His head was indeed severed with a clean cut, but that's all.

The second part of the story comes from an American observer named Captain
Hubbard. He reports that the bodies of the rebels had been striped naked and
lined up in two rows on a hill by the Imperial army's barricades. Hubbard
immediately spots Saigo's body and realizes the head is missing. It is the only one
that the head is completely gone from. Others were "dreadfully cut up" and he
felt certain they had killed each other. While he was watching Saigo's head was
brought in and unceremoniously placed beside his body. And that's all there
was to it.

This is of course all from Mark Ravina's book, The Last Samurai.

-MissBehavin


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[Previous #1164] [Next #1168]

#1168 [2004-06-18 07:16:57]

Re: [SHQ] Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword

by warg3791

In a message dated 6/18/2004 10:12:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
okita_souji@... writes:
Haha....i'm sure Kondo's and Okita's blades won in those instances.

You know, after thinking about it, some of the swords of the Shinsengumi
members may have been destroyed after WWII when the occupational forces gathered
all the weapons and melted them down.

That's true. How sad. Or they could be here in America. I recall hearing that
a lot of service men got hold of confiscated Japanese swords and brought them
home as "souviners".

-MissBehavin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#1169 [2004-06-18 07:40:10]

Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword/more Seinan War paintings

by secretarytocapt3

I have a pic (huge 2 page fold out) that was probably issued by the
government...It shows Saigo (the figure was labelled) in hell (it
seems)...he was surrounded by demonic and bloody figures with
horse/ox heads...wasn't pretty

There was one of Saigo's head (drawn very big) on some kind of
platform and people playing tug of war with it

there was a funny painting of Saigo (in the meteor) pointing at the
ballon and shooting -it- down!

There many paintings of Saigo's purported seppuku...some of his men
around him were helping each other commit suicide (sword to the
throat with a friend holding his hand) and others burning papers.

Banquet for high ranking gov. leaders were interesting...they would
all be sitting in a pavilion drinking and women were waiting on them
and right outside the pavilion was a guy sitting in a tree---I
assume he was the lookout guy

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#1170 [2004-06-18 07:48:13]

Saitou's Son's Sword (was Re: Miki+Saitou's Sword)

by secretarytocapt3

Go to 1to5.net the page about the family members...something about
Saitou's oldest son and his sword...

http://www.1to5.net/saito/family/family.html

"Eldest son working hard (1876 December 15 Hinase rare)
As for record concerning him you have not seen excessively, but you
became the soldier afterwards and you worked in the Wakamatsu 65
regiment around 1917 as Major. The permitting/inserting preservation
four man Tsuneo's Matsudaira it was classmate. To tell the truth at
the university of that son it went to Manchuria with the ‚é
immediately, went to war from there, revolution game did the every
place, received termination of war with Okinawa. It was picked up
with the notion that where that time it keeps temporarily from the
US military, *the sword did not return after all. Him (the truth)
according to the place where you talked afterwards, as for father
working hard piercing the opening from occasionally shape, ¢ loyal
retainer road non- preparedness! Calling the £, you ram down with
the bamboo sword, forcing. The fact that 1956, just before you die
and to talk the document of the Fujita Family leave is working hard.
(As for writing down green of the wife)

This sword the south period to which Gonbei Sugaya Aizu feudal clan
councillor has possessed heavily with the sword of the country, that
when Tsuneo's Matsudaira who is the working hard classmate daughter
and Setuko marrying to Chichibu Miyake, size had decided to give the
sword of the Aizu long road from the Aizu feudal clan as the item
which is the celebration, but the large sword there is no knife of
certain ones and the ‚Ä the place where it has been troubled, it was
to be in the Fujita Family and it was the gratitude which gives that.
Reference material ' collaborative research new selection group '
Saito one (Fujita five ˜Y) puzzle"

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Warg3791@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 6/18/2004 10:12:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> okita_souji@o... writes:
> Haha....i'm sure Kondo's and Okita's blades won in those
instances.
>
> You know, after thinking about it, some of the swords of the
Shinsengumi
> members may have been destroyed after WWII when the occupational
forces gathered
> all the weapons and melted them down.
>
> That's true. How sad. Or they could be here in America. I recall
hearing that
> a lot of service men got hold of confiscated Japanese swords and
brought them
> home as "souviners".
>
> -MissBehavin
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #1169] [Next #1171]

#1171 [2004-06-18 09:56:45]

Re: [SHQ] Miki+Saitou's Sword/more Seinan War paintings

by shimazuryu

>This is of course all from Mark Ravina's book, The Last Samurai.

Oh, Mark Ravina...I looked through that book. This is the guy who thinks
that all daimyo were ignorant fools incapable of doing anything, and that
Saigo was worthy of being called a "great hero"...

--M.

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